Why is the healer class basically a one spell dps class?

[Ayche]

Why go to extremes to make an example? There is a massive difference between a full fledged dps rotation and spamming a single button. No one's asking to have a full heal toolkit plus an entire dps toolkit, but an in-between would be great.

There are plenty of ways to do it while being able to fit healing in. Combos don't have to break if you heal, look at how forgiving Dancer combos are for example. You can have several procs that could open weave windows that are ideal for oGCD healing. An extra DoT. A higher MP instant cast Glare/Broil for weave. Seraph Strike. More aoe. Lots of ideas they could try...

I wanted the thought experiment to skew towards the extreme to feel for what is considered more "neutral" as a change. But if I were to psycho-analyze how it feels like Unit 3 wants the game to be, weaving in more damage """for free""" will never happen. I could see longer cast time DPS spell being universally introduced, like a Healer Flare. 4 second cast time would mean you earned the time to cast it since that is time you cannot be healing and being pseudo-aoe it could be fit into both boss damage and mob clearing.

This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out...

Half true? Harsh. it is after all based on what I have seen with my own eyes. CE damage might be scripted, but the amount of people being hit by those mechanics CE to CE is completely random, they are not your dungeons runs where nobody actually gets hit by markers.

My bozja dps healing experience has been on DRG, MNK, SMN and MCH. Machinist of them was the easiest to do it as, Summoner somewhere in the middle and Monk and Dragoon were the clunkiest. And I tend to use only Lost Cure I and Lost Cure III since ... that is what fragments tend to give me plenty I guess.

[Corbeau]

Anyone who says healers can't have a DPS rotation has never played a fistweaver.

[Imora]

Anyone who says healers can't have a DPS rotation has never played a fistweaver.

I hated fistweaving. I also hate catweaving. I also hate the reason the second became a thing.

When i play a healer, i want damage to heal. Not green dps. I think they need to up damage across the board. And more damage down rebuffs for standing in stuff on top of the damage.

:P

[Ayche]

Lost Cure IV is truly nuts isn't it. It is bit more realistic to pretend you would be stuck with Lost Cure I, II and III. And anyway, while you can pace yourself by the boss mechanics, you cannot pace yourself to other people taking damage at random.

I mean, what is the fantasy here? Would people blink if you just made healing playing BLM until it is heal-o-clock in the trial schedule and you hit "heal everyone" button few times and then go back to firing the copycat RDM/BLM/SMN rotation?

[AikenDrum]

I mean, what is the fantasy here? Would people blink if you just made healing playing BLM until it is heal-o-clock in the trial schedule and you hit "heal everyone" button few times and then go back to firing the copycat RDM/BLM/SMN rotation?

isn't it kinda already like that? was forced to heal few DRs on seraph whm and most of the time two lilies buttons were all the healing needed

anyway, the question was whether or not having to heal with healing spells would interfere with dps jobs rotation - and it didn't feel like that for rdm; and i also vastly preferred playing a healing role with rdm than with whm

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Glare spam is economical.

Anyone can do the experiment of going to Bozja, chugging the Savior juice and slotting in some Lost healing spells. Then you go from CE to CE, acting as true DPS healer. And while an interesting experience, it can also be one of frustration because sticking to a strict rotation and being available on demand to heal the whole party with 1-2 GCDs of heals do not mix together. That is the key to it, Glare spam can be interrupted with no penalty at any cost, to save whoever just ate some raid mechanic to the face. So an "actual" DPS rotation does not fit into the healing lifestyle.

This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out.

The only outlier is probably DRG (and possibly MNK) since DRGs has a long string of combo (5 GCD!) that continues to their next round of combo via Raiden Thrust. Healers can definitely use a simple 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo.

Honestly, DPS Job + Savior gameplay was refreshing & I wish we have that kind of ‘downtime busy’ in other general contents.

[SpiralMask]

This is only half true. Incoming damage in BSF/Zadnor content is highly infrequent & scripted (as is in majority other content outside Ultimate—I can’t speak of that since I don’t play that).

Any class with simple 1-2-3 combo can safely wait long enough to finish their combo before tossing a Lost Cure III. At that point we’re basically playing a psuedo-CNJ who had to stop spamming Stone II to cast Medica. The cost of stopping to heal is, we basically stop doing damage for a GCD (or more). With Lost Cure II/IV, we don’t even need to break our combo nor finish them since they can be weaved. I can speak of this because I’ve chugged savior essence as all DPS classes except DRG, MNK & SAM into CEs & CLL/DRn/Dalriada. The number of times I needed to actually break a combo to stop & cast Cure III was very remote & mostly was my own fault for zoning out.

The only outlier is probably DRG (and possibly MNK) since DRGs has a long string of combo (5 GCD!) that continues to their next round of combo via Raiden Thrust. Healers can definitely use a simple 1-2 or 1-2-3 combo.

Honestly, DPS Job + Savior gameplay was refreshing & I wish we have that kind of ‘downtime busy’ in other general contents.

for a similar reason, BLU healing is also much more interesting compared to "real" healers, since they have plenty to do outside of healing when it's so infrequently required (combos, ogcds, status effects/buffs, etc).

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

for a similar reason, BLU healing is also much more interesting compared to "real" healers, since they have plenty to do outside of healing when it's so infrequently required (combos, ogcds, status effects/buffs, etc).

On top of that, BLU also doesn't suffer from healing button bloat. They have just enough buttons to heal adequately---quite the opposite of what current green classes have at this point. Which is why I pitched in my perspective being a blue/red healer in BSF contents. Lost Cure II/III is all they need to heal effectively. IV is a bit tad excessive but also works. In case of deaths, limited phoenix downs & Lost Arise (for blue classes) can cover that.

[Semirhage]

Why is there this attitude that devs don't know or can't design the game? Has it occurred to you that this is what the majority of players wanted?

Because of player feedback over the years, this is what the current game is a reflection of.

Spamming one button for the majority of an encounter sure is...exactly the opposite of what I've been asking for. At least.