Relo mechanics are Cancer

[Catstab]

an auction would help to delete a lot of gil from the economy... which wouldn't be a bad thing.

I mean, I suggested we make housing prices what they used to be. 40 mil smalls, 200m meds, 500m larges. This would be a gil sink of over 30 billion gear a year. Every response was "well then everyone will RMT for housing." So I imagine your auction suggestion will face similar "RMT bait" criticism.

I prefer these larger but fixed prices to your auction idea, since the auction would mean some would get very inexpensive housing and others would pay a great deal. But I do agree a gil sink would be helpful.

[Almagnus1]

I mean, I suggested we make housing prices what they used to be. 40 mil smalls, 200m meds, 500m larges. This would be a gil sink of over 30 billion gear a year. Every response was "well then everyone will RMT for housing." So I imagine your auction suggestion will face similar "RMT bait" criticism.

I prefer these larger but fixed prices to your auction idea, since the auction would mean some would get very inexpensive housing and others would pay a great deal. But I do agree a gil sink would be helpful.

The main idea I'm looking at is how it would be possible to allow for someone other than whomever got there first (or relo'd there first) to have a shot at getting the house.

Once we're at a point where there's a different housing reassignment (be it an auction, raffle, or whatever) and a mechanic that allows for discoverability so a third party is able to disrupt a house flip, then its possible to get rid of the timer and let the market sort itself out.

While RMT is a concern, that may be mitigated by SE creating some sort of time token that is sellable on the market (so players can hoard those instead of gil and also convert gil into subscription time).

[Catstab]

The main idea I'm looking at is how it would be possible to allow for someone other than whomever got there first (or relo'd there first) to have a shot at getting the house

I don't think this is the proper approach. I think the timer is a bad idea, and has done a lot of damage to a lot of peoples play experiences. I do not think expanding on this "hurry up and wait" style is an idea deserving of any merit.

I think that people sweeping the wards for open houses should be rewarded by getting their pick of the openings, so long as they can afford them. If the open mansion is 500 mil, it's not the first person to get there. It's the first person to get there with 500 mil. IE a large, active, deserving FC or highly enterprising player who was checking hourly for a house.

[Catstab]

remove the relo mechanic from the game and force people that want to move to release the old house and fight for the new one

<Forcing relocators to repeat their camps> is NOT the answer.

No, <relocation> doesn't [need removal].

Relocation isn't bad.

The relocation mechanism as a whole is a QoL improvement

... you completely missed the point XD

Who is really missing the point here, Magnus?

Everyone: relocation is good, it helps people find their dream homes securely, and helps FCs.

You: Relocation is awful, the timer needs to impact more people more severely.

You call me a hypocrite and yet I push consistently for people to keep things that they have earned through gameplay (alt houses, relocation privilege), while still wanting campers to have the best experience possible.

Your suggestions all center around taking earned advantages and QoL features away, damaging the gaming experience for everyone, so that no player gets ahead of another in progression.

[Almagnus1]

Who is really missing the point here, Magnus?

Everyone: relocation is good, it helps people find their dream homes securely, and helps FCs.

You: Relocation is awful, the timer needs to impact more people more severely.

You call me a hypocrite and yet I push consistently for people to keep things that they have earned through gameplay (alt houses, relocation privilege), while still wanting campers to have the best experience possible.

Your suggestions all center around taking earned advantages and QoL features away, damaging the gaming experience for everyone, so that no player gets ahead of another in progression.

And you prove that (yet again) you missed the point.

[MilkieTea]

And you prove that (yet again) you missed the point.

Alright, can you ELI5 this? What's the point? In clear, simple, no nonsense terms, what's the point?

[Almagnus1]

Alright, can you ELI5 this? What's the point? In clear, simple, no nonsense terms, what's the point?

Relocation (as it currently stands now) causes problems, and we're going to see that with the Ishgardian housing not from the initial wave of houses being open, but from the second wave where people relo into Ishgard. That's also going to be the same thing we'll see to a lesser extent with the Oceanic servers opening, as both the second wave of housing from Ishgard's relos and the Oceanic server transfers are going to put a whole bunch of properties up for sale in the other wards - and those properties are going to give relos an advantage whereas the first time buyers are going to get screwed over again like what we saw with the recent re-enabling of the demolish timer.

Following from all of this, SE should add some mechanic that puts the relos and first time buyers on equal footing, not give an advantage to the relos. IMO if SE can come up with a mechanic (be it a raffle, house auction, or something else) that allows for the house to be assigned fairly and have a window that people can sign up to have a chance at getting the house (whether it's through RNG or whoever horks up the most gil) and the mechanic is done in such a way that it makes a transfer of a house from one party to another extremely unlikely (which would completely halt house flipping), that means we have a realistic chance of getting rid of the infernal timer as there will be a better solution in place.

The point then, is acknowledging the problem exists, and once it is acknowledged, coming up with a solution so that SE can work with it.

[Catstab]

And you prove that (yet again) you missed the point.

Your point is just plain wrong, though. Relocation is fine as is. It's the timer in general that is cancer. But I don't blame you for conflating the two and not being sure which is the problem.

Relocation should go away, yes - but not as a feature. Relocation should be made obsolete by removing the random timer. Replace the timer with:

A. Houses cost 50-500 million so new players are no longer shopping
B. Housing only for level 80s so new players are no longer shopping
C. Server population caps (not happening)
D. Instanced housing (not happening)

So stop suggesting things like "lets take the one good thing in housing and make it bad, so housing experiences are universally bad for everyone"

[Almagnus1]

Your point is just plain wrong, though. Relocation is fine as is. It's the timer in general that is cancer. But I don't blame you for conflating the two and not being sure which is the problem.

Relocation should go away, yes - but not as a feature. Relocation should be made obsolete by removing the random timer. Replace the timer with:

A. Houses cost 50-500 million so new players are no longer shopping
B. Housing only for level 80s so new players are no longer shopping
C. Server population caps (not happening)
D. Instanced housing (not happening)

So stop suggesting things like "lets take the one good thing in housing and make it bad, so housing experiences are universally bad for everyone"

Ok Don Quixote, keep fighting those windmills and let me know once you have finally slain one.

[Catstab]

Relocation (as it currently stands now) causes problems

The timer causes problems. Relocation is one tiny bit of relief to the giant problem that is the timer. Suggesting it's removal is seeking to make the game objectively worse.

<mass relocation means a> bunch of properties up for sale in the other wards - and those properties are going to give relos an advantage.

Working as intended. First time buyers are supposed to take the unwanted plots. Campers job is 'get anything' and relocators job is 'go where you want to be'

The relocation system is there to help people find their dream plots without ever having to negotiate the timer for a second time. It also allows relocators to claim a house and get right out of campers way immediately. You'd instead have relocators fight campers for 20 hours at the placard? And then the campers lose and it's the same situation we had, expect we wasted 40 man-hours of paying customer's time first. It's objectively making the game worse.

something else) that allows for the house to be assigned fairly

So right now, we have this great system wherein the first person to see an open plot who has also paid their dues by camping may claim that open plot as desired. So someone diligent and driven is rewarded with the house.

Your suggestion is that if someone else shows up an hour or three after it spawned and has never put any effort into housing before today, not only should our first player to arrive still be waiting for their reward rather than enjoying it, but these two players should be equal in their chances at a reward, despite one putting in more effort and therefore arguably having more desire.

Sure, and while we're at it, let's make the 430 weapons hit as hard as the 530 weapons. After all, you wouldn't want to give players any advantage for the time and effort they put in.

Removing elements that reward players who put effort into the game will always result in a reduction of the game's quality. Again, objectively making the game worse.

The point then, is acknowledging the problem exists, and once it is acknowledged, coming up with a solution so that SE can work with it.

Problem: The random timer damages play experiences for all first time buyers (you are requesting this feature is expanded to damage all play experiences for all players )

Solutions:
Higher prices.
More servers.
More wards.
More housing zones.

All of this is in the works, except higher pricing. The problem is going to stay bad, as long as the gil you get for following the MSQ is enough to buy a house.

Add gil sinks (gameplay gil sinks, not mounts), or buff house pricing to where it's actually a vanity feature rather than something 95% of players can afford and only 25% of players can be accommodated by.