Alternatives to NPC romance, since it's a polarizing topic

[Tennyoelf]

-SNIP for length-

There are issues about romance in the game that isn't about story continuity. There are also animation limitations as well. If someone wished to romance Urianger as a Lalafell, that would take some genius animator to figure out a way to even show them hugging. If code limitations prevent them from ever figuring it out, then they may limit which races can romance which races, which would be very upsetting to certain players. Buddy quests, which are platonic in nature, would skip that need for extra animations.

Also, there are some who worry about what romance quests added would do to the game culture as well as the perception of the game to those who don't play FFXIV. I've seen some vehemently oppose romance quests. From a developer's POV, that means taking into consideration those who don't want such a thing. All of us are players of FFXIV, we all mean something to the developers. They're going to aim to make as many people as happy as possible.

As for your concern about my idea not addressing the concern, it comes down to the significance of what a best friend verse a romantic partner means to the average person. There is definitely an argument to make that a close friend is indeed just as important, maybe even more so, than a romantic partner. Saying being best buds with a certain NPC would have the same weight and writing constraints as a romantic partner is definitely something that will defer from person to person, from culture to culture. Generally speaking, most people weigh romantic partners are being much more significant than best friends, that a romantic partner will ultimately be the closest, most important person in your life, especially once being married is thrown into the mix. So taking the example of Urianger going to Mars from the article, if we are best buds with him, then an extra line or two, spoken or not, is all that is needed for a goodbye. If we were romantically involved, that means either breaking up or having us go with him. It'll cause a messy situation, especially since Urianger wants to go Mars despite being romantically involved with someone. Also, as the WoL, the developers probably don't want us following after our love interest or we can't because we gotta save the world again. Or Mars isn't going to be in any expansion any time soon. Saying "I'll wait for you!" is an extra writing constraint than, "We're bros, so I hope you come back soon!"

To me, I rather have extra time with my favorite NPCs, even if it must be platonic-based, than get nothing because romance turns out too difficult for the team. Or they're too reluctant because of writing constraints. Having platonic-based questlines for NPCs doesn't take romance quests off the table. They can be separate or even a pre-requisite if they do find a way to implement romance. But if they never do? If they remain reluctant? If those who oppose romance quests became the louder group?

[Yandere-chan]

There are issues about romance in the game that isn't about story continuity. There are also animation limitations as well. If someone wished to romance Urianger as a Lalafell, that would take some genius animator to figure out a way to even show them hugging. If code limitations prevent them from ever figuring it out, then they may limit which races can romance which races, which would be very upsetting to certain players. Buddy quests, which are platonic in nature, would skip that need for extra animations.

Also, there are some who worry about what romance quests added would do to the game culture as well as the perception of the game to those who don't play FFXIV. I've seen some vehemently oppose romance quests. From a developer's POV, that means taking into consideration those who don't want such a thing. All of us are players of FFXIV, we all mean something to the developers. They're going to aim to make as many people as happy as possible.

As for your concern about my idea not addressing the concern, it comes down to the significance of what a best friend verse a romantic partner means to the average person. There is definitely an argument to make that a close friend is indeed just as important, maybe even more so, than a romantic partner. Saying being best buds with a certain NPC would have the same weight and writing constraints as a romantic partner is definitely something that will defer from person to person, from culture to culture. Generally speaking, most people weigh romantic partners are being much more significant than best friends, that a romantic partner will ultimately be the closest, most important person in your life, especially once being married is thrown into the mix. So taking the example of Urianger going to Mars from the article, if we are best buds with him, then an extra line or two, spoken or not, is all that is needed for a goodbye. If we were romantically involved, that means either breaking up or having us go with him. It'll cause a messy situation, especially since Urianger wants to go Mars despite being romantically involved with someone. Also, as the WoL, the developers probably don't want us following after our love interest or we can't because we gotta save the world again. Or Mars isn't going to be in any expansion any time soon. Saying "I'll wait for you!" is an extra writing constraint than, "We're bros, so I hope you come back soon!"

To me, I rather have extra time with my favorite NPCs, even if it must be platonic-based, than get nothing because romance turns out too difficult for the team. Or they're too reluctant because of writing constraints. Having platonic-based questlines for NPCs doesn't take romance quests off the table. They can be separate or even a pre-requisite if they do find a way to implement romance. But if they never do? If they remain reluctant? If those who oppose romance quests became the louder group?

I don't think animations are at all a problem. Tall races are already able to do the hug emote with short ones. That alone proves that such things wouldn't be an issue for the animation team if the current animations are not enough for such content. I don't see race limitations being a thing. And, no, buddy quests could just as easily have additional animations made for them. It also might not be necessary, but I'm thinking that they will only add extra animations if they want to for either route.

The...game culture? The idea that optional content would be excluded because some people don't care for it is so beyond absurd that I'm not sure if you're serious. Such a thing should never even remotely be a factor. Like, plenty of people don't care at all for limited jobs or Eureka-like content. Plenty of people aren't comfortable with same-sex eternal bonding. Some people hate certain races. A developer should not decide if things should be in game on the basis of the hatred of others. It's an illegitimate factor of consideration in regard to content that is ultimately optional. And, no, not every bit of optional content is aimed to make as many people happy as possible. A lot of optional content purposely targets niche interests. The idea is to have many different types of optional content so all together there are things for everyone. Of course, it doesn't mean that, as I suggested, a platonic option can't be an option too as a means to increase the number of people such content is potentially enjoyable to. But, the idea that they wouldn't have romantic optional npc quests because some people find it icky or whatever is just, again, beyond absurd to me.

The issue isn't a question of whether or not a close friendship might mean more to someone than a romance. The issue is if someone cares to be invested in a specific character, the developers want to be able to both maintain content that is related to said character for the content in question as well as being able to go keep happenstances open for characters as well. The investment people have in said characters is going to exist regardless of the titles in play and the same type of complaints would exist. If someone really likes Urianger, and wants to do this type of content with him specifically, it matters little if the quest dialogue tries to suggest it's platonic or not. It's still an issue of the player not being able to do the content they want with the character they care most about which is what the developer has expressed to want to avoid.

I don't think it's a matter of compromise. I think it's a matter of giving people what they want. People have constantly asked for romantic optional content for NPCs. Not platonic quests. It does not mean of course that some people may not just want platonic quests, but when the driving request is romance, it makes no sense to not actually give what was requested. From the interview, it's a matter of getting over the stated hurdle for it to come to fruition. The developer did not say, "we're worried about anti romance complainers." It isn't even a concern, so I'm not going to pretend it is as it's not even a valid factor worthy of concern in my mind. Some complaints simply are toxic in nature and should be disregarded. What you describe would apply. For me it goes in the same bag as those who request lalas being auto blacklisted or made invisible and what not.

[Iscah]

I think it's simply a matter of logistics. It's an ongoing story where the characters change and evolve over time. Giving them additional character development in a second, disconnected set of conversations is going to be confusing to the timeline and just hard for the writers to keep track of.

If you want to develop your understanding of the supporting cast, you talk to them between quests and between every objective of quests they're involved in. They have a lot to say.

[Senn]

Now that I think about it, I wonder how this would work if a character were to die later on in the story. I guess it could be done only with characters that certainly wont die, but that would kind of be a spoiler, no?

[sarehptar]

We already have custom deliveries that lets you befriend and help NPCs. I have no idea why they haven't just added the scions to that and called it a day.

[Iscah]

We already have custom deliveries that lets you befriend and help NPCs. I have no idea why they haven't just added the scions to that and called it a day.

Being a custom delivery client ties the character down to a very static existence. The NPC has to stay in place permanently for ongoing deliveries and can't be updated besides altering what they say when you talk to them.

Compare Urianger being stuck in place at the Waking Sands due to being the questgiver for a lot of ARR optional content - no costume updates, no moving around until they finally decided it was better to leave the clearly outdated NPC there while putting a current-MSQ version of him elsewhere.

[sarehptar]

Being a custom delivery client ties the character down to a very static existence. The NPC has to stay in place permanently for ongoing deliveries and can't be updated besides altering what they say when you talk to them.

Compare Urianger being stuck in place at the Waking Sands due to being the questgiver for a lot of ARR optional content - no costume updates, no moving around until they finally decided it was better to leave the clearly outdated NPC there while putting a current-MSQ version of him elsewhere.

Rowena is literally everywhere at once. There are plenty of NPCs that already do this--you can go talk to Gerolt in Gangos, then teleport to the North Shroud and talk to him there too, with no updated dialogue. Players are quite used to this already. And it's also possible to lock custom deliveries behind certain main story quests, so it would be possible to make it so that players could only start custom deliveries with, say, Y'shtola, after completing the 5.3 patch quests, etc. etc.

The only possible issue would be if they killed off a character in the future, in which case there would have to be some contingency for those custom delivery quests. But there's plenty enough random excuses they could make up ("Our dear friend is gone, but she left us an allagan memory recording so you can still interact with her" or whatever lol) to not really make this much of a valid point either.

[Iscah]

Rowena is literally everywhere at once. There are plenty of NPCs that already do this--you can go talk to Gerolt in Gangos, then teleport to the North Shroud and talk to him there too, with no updated dialogue. Players are quite used to this already. And it's also possible to lock custom deliveries behind certain main story quests, so it would be possible to make it so that players could only start custom deliveries with, say, Y'shtola, after completing the 5.3 patch quests, etc. etc.

Rowena and Gerolt are also very static characters. It doesn't matter what order you encounter them in; their personalities never really change or develop. ARR-era Gerolt in Hyrstmill is acting just the same as ShB Gerolt in Gangos, and he hasn't so much as changed his pants in the meanwhile.

The more prominent the character and the more they change in the MSQ, the more noticable it's going to be if there's also a second version of them "stuck in time" from an earlier era of the game.

[kaynide]

The more prominent the character and the more they change in the MSQ, the more noticable it's going to be if there's also a second version of them "stuck in time" from an earlier era of the game.

There is a weird twilight zone moment where you can have Urianger in the first playing with fairies with everyone fretting about how to bring him home while simultaneously finding Urianger at walking sands fretting about..was it Titan?

(Not saying I think this is fine or even that it should be a thing..just pointing out an oddity)

[sarehptar]

Rowena and Gerolt are also very static characters. It doesn't matter what order you encounter them in; their personalities never really change or develop. ARR-era Gerolt in Hyrstmill is acting just the same as ShB Gerolt in Gangos, and he hasn't so much as changed his pants in the meanwhile.

The more prominent the character and the more they change in the MSQ, the more noticeable it's going to be if there's also a second version of them "stuck in time" from an earlier era of the game.

My point was more that most people just... don't care? Yeah, there are situations where it would probably not make sense for a character to appear in, say, some random room in Mor Dhona if they're supposed to be off on the moon... But do the vast majority of players care that much about there being an outdated NPC around? Does every single player who happens to be starting the Coil of Bahamut questline while also playing Shadowbringers really think to themselves: "This is the most game-breaking thing ever, how annoying to leave this outdated NPC here?" You might notice it, but the percentage of people who would be really bothered seems very small. And for people who really, really care about immersion, there's always the option to... not engage with the custom deliveries for that NPC until a point in your story in which it makes sense to do so? Likewise, there's already a system built in place for devs to update custom delivery NPC models based on a player's quest progression; (spoiler, watch out!) Ehll Tou, for example, changes models during her deliveries based on your progression. And the whole outdated look thing is kind of moot anyway, because most custom delivery NPCs can be glamoured once you complete their questline. Don't like the scions wearing their old clothes? You'll literally be able to glamour them into new ones--hell, even their own new ones, via the Mogstation. In fact, this would probably be a plus for people who happen to like some of the older outfits better than the newer ones and would like to see Y'shtola or Thancred in their Heavensward gear again, etc. etc.

At some point I think that we have to just logically weigh the costs versus benefits; to me, and I think many, many other players (given how often the idea of personal quests with the scions comes up), there's no question of which would be the better option: the thought of an outdated version of an NPC showing up in some building I would never enter otherwise versus never getting any side quests with the most meaningful characters in the game isn't remotely in the same realm of disappointment...