Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

[KizuyaKatogami]

I just really wish our choices would actually mean something for once. Really it’s just random flavor text to try and make us feel important or like we have an actual say in things, but it just falls flat because everything is so scripted as it is. Even the small choices we do get, they arent varied at all. For example the Misija choice, i wanted an option to say its not Menenius or Gabranth's fault either, but alas it wasnt an option. Honestly i was asking myself the entire Bozja storyline, why arent we helping the IVth instead of the Bozjans. They seem way better lmao. Guess we always have to choose the underdogs though.

[Vyrerus]

I took the approach of initially refusing to weigh in on the subject of Misija. I didn't blame her for her actions, nor did I blame Gabranth. Later, when given the choice to grant her request of a mercy kill I did as much - and she died peacefully before she could be stabbed.

I was happy with that outcome, personally. Given that the Warrior of Darkness and the Bozjan Resistance slaughtered a medic even as she desperately pleaded for mercy and for her friends to not be slain, the protagonists had even less justification for their usual drooling and screeching about morality.

All in all, I thought it was a tasteful representation of the horrors and complications of war and exactly what I hoped we were going to experience back in Stormblood.

I guess I need to rewatch cutscenes. When did we slaughter a medic?

[RyuDragnier]

I chose execution for Misija, simply because while she was following orders, she was not given orders to temper one person and force him to kill his friends (even Lyon seemed disgusted by this), she was not ordered to turn the Blades into those monstrosities, she was not ordered to attempt to destroy Bozja. All of that was her, her higher-ups have no blame whatsoever in that. When she wanted me to kill her, I tried to, simply because it felt like she didn't want the execution to come from those in her own country that caused her to become this way, but from the hero that had managed to free and change entire countries for the better.

I guess I need to rewatch cutscenes. When did we slaughter a medic?

Dyunbu is a medic, and we kill her entire medic squad in one fate and then her in another.

[Theodric]

Yeah, Dyunbu shows up in a number of FATE's throughout the Bozjan Southern Front. The FATE description even lampshades that killing medics is frowned upon, yet the Warrior of Darkness and the Bozjan Resistance do it anyway. All the while, Dyunbu is pleading for you to stop killing her men. She survives initially, joins forces with a different group of scattered survivors and then sees the exact same thing happen once again. She's eventually put down herself in a third FATE.

Even Misija was captured (albeit temporarily) yet lethal force is wielded against Dyunbu. Her field notes paint a picture of her being a pretty likable individual, so it's a shame that it ended the way that it did. Ultimately, though, it's clear proof that the protagonists are not the 'good guys' and that someday they themselves will need to answer for their sins.

Matsuno's great at handling the nuance and realities of war, though. So ultimately it's a good thing - it's not something to be glorified or feel 'good' about. There's no real winners or loses regardless of the outcome. Just a load of dead bodies on either side.

[EdwinLi]

Yeah, Dyunbu shows up in a number of FATE's throughout the Bozjan Southern Front. The FATE description even lampshades that killing medics is frowned upon, yet the Warrior of Darkness and the Bozjan Resistance do it anyway. All the while, Dyunbu is pleading for you to stop killing her men. She survives initially, joins forces with a different group of scattered survivors and then sees the exact same thing happen once again. She's eventually put down herself in a third FATE.

Even Misija was captured (albeit temporarily) yet lethal force is wielded against Dyunbu. Her field notes paint a picture of her being a pretty likable individual, so it's a shame that it ended the way that it did. Ultimately, though, it's clear proof that the protagonists are not the 'good guys' and that someday they themselves will need to answer for their sins.

Matsuno's great at handling the nuance and realities of war, though. So ultimately it's a good thing - it's not something to be glorified or feel 'good' about. There's no real winners or loses regardless of the outcome. Just a load of dead bodies on either side.

It is sad but it is also the result of mentality between each forces.

Gabranth's army has set standards for themselves in this war due to superior numbers and forces but the Resistance have gone into full kill who and what they can to win the war due to lower numbers and resources.

It is one of the oldest questions of war being what is tolerated during times of war and what is tolerated during times of peace.

Standards of right and wrong can greatly change between times of war and times of peace to a point it feels almost like different worlds during these two different times.


Let me bring up a example of this from a different game I play called Genshin Impact involving a character named Zhongli.

During current era when his homeland Liyue is at peace, people will look down on people who will hurt unarmed people or people who do not intend to fight. However during the era of the Archon War, everyone was killing each other doing whatever it takes to claim one of the 7 seats of Archons to become rulers of a land.

It was literally the Law that 7 Gods of the lower lands must claim the seat by killing each other and no one above 7 were allowed to live as decreed by the Celestial gods living in the land of Celestia. Those who claim the 7 seats will then be given the ability to determine what is right and wrong in the lands they rule.

However, during this era Zhongli was forced to kill many friends who also wanted to claim a seat. Those who did not fighting and kill were considered weak or easy targets thus those who refused to fight were easily killed off by those who did choose to fight. One of Zhongli's friends who was the God of Salt was even killed by her own followers because eventually she will be killed by another God and her followers did not want her to suffer a painful death within what little land she had left. Those who did fight formed alliances together but known one day they will have to turn on each other if there still remains more than 7 lower Gods which Zhongli did with the God of Ash Guizhong. However, Guizhong died during the Archon War at the hands of another God and told Zhongli in her final moments to forget about the puzzle box she gave him (which some people assume that the box may contain her love confession to Zhongli due to their relationship ).

It was only after the Archon War ended when standards for such harsh actions commited during the Archon War were placed by Zhongli and the other Archons in their lands to prevent them from happening during times of peace. Do people still judge Zhongli for what he did during the Archon War? Yes but at the sametime they can't put the standards of right and wrong for a time of peace on him since during a time of war it was right to kill unarmed people and people who refuse to fight due to it being wrong during that time to refuse to fight and not do whatever they can to claim one of the 7 seats of Archons. It was only after the Archon War ended when harming unarmed people or people who do not intend to fight became a standard in right and wrong due to laws established by Zhongli in Liyue.

[Fenral]

a character named Zhangli

Good writeup, but it's spelled Zhongli, with an 'o'.


Sorry...

[EdwinLi]

Good writeup, but it's spelled Zhongli, with an 'o'.


Sorry...

it's fine.

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Now back on topic....


I still heavily suspect Sharlayan been planning for the Final Days for a very long time. We know that we my even enter a Ark that Sharlayan made in 6.0 as a Dungeon which looks almost or is already complete.

I still suspect, they have always planned to be the only surviving civilization after the Final Days or maybe they always planned to start the Final Days themselves so they can create a world they believe will be a better one under the rulership of their chosen few raised and born in Sharlayan.

We have always known and seen that Sharlayan see themselves as superior than other civilizations to a point they consider everyone else savages and themselves civilized people.

[YianKutku]

I still heavily suspect Sharlayan been planning for the Final Days for a very long time. We know that we my even enter a Ark that Sharlayan made in 6.0 as a Dungeon which looks almost or is already complete.

If that Ark is powered by voidsent I desperately hope to have a response of "have you literally learned nothing from the past few Calamities".

[Vyrerus]

Yeah, Dyunbu shows up in a number of FATE's throughout the Bozjan Southern Front. The FATE description even lampshades that killing medics is frowned upon, yet the Warrior of Darkness and the Bozjan Resistance do it anyway. All the while, Dyunbu is pleading for you to stop killing her men. She survives initially, joins forces with a different group of scattered survivors and then sees the exact same thing happen once again. She's eventually put down herself in a third FATE.

Even Misija was captured (albeit temporarily) yet lethal force is wielded against Dyunbu. Her field notes paint a picture of her being a pretty likable individual, so it's a shame that it ended the way that it did. Ultimately, though, it's clear proof that the protagonists are not the 'good guys' and that someday they themselves will need to answer for their sins.

Matsuno's great at handling the nuance and realities of war, though. So ultimately it's a good thing - it's not something to be glorified or feel 'good' about. There's no real winners or loses regardless of the outcome. Just a load of dead bodies on either side.

Her field notes paint her as a zealot for Gabranth. Eyes on utopia no matter the cost. That paints her as not quite right imo.

I chose execution for Misija, simply because while she was following orders, she was not given orders to temper one person and force him to kill his friends (even Lyon seemed disgusted by this), she was not ordered to turn the Blades into those monstrosities, she was not ordered to attempt to destroy Bozja. All of that was her, her higher-ups have no blame whatsoever in that. When she wanted me to kill her, I tried to, simply because it felt like she didn't want the execution to come from those in her own country that caused her to become this way, but from the hero that had managed to free and change entire countries for the better.


Dyunbu is a medic, and we kill her entire medic squad in one fate and then her in another.

You mean that conjurer who's literally killing Bozjan Resistance, and later comes back as a Zombie in the final fight that she's in? Hardly a moral conundrum there. Killing medics is frowned upon because they're supposed to be treating their own wounded (and if they are treating someone on the battlefield and unarmed that is when it goes against polite conventions. If somebody's wearing medic colors but shooting your men, then damn right you kill them).

I'm fairly certain no Garleans have ever hesitated when killing conjurers from Gridania. I certainly ain't gonna lose any sleep over Dyunbu, and she certainly wasn't an unarmed non-combatant just treating the wounded on the battlefield.

[Alleluia]

MSQ Anger (But not like because it's bad or anything)

Fourchenault needs a swift kick in the ass. A solid punch to the face. A knee to the gut. His entire demeanor and expression is contemptible to me, and by the time he disowned his children that was barely a consideration in the vitriol stew that was brewing in my beating breast. That man is no father, though they may call him such. And if he is a reflection of the other 98 members of the Forum, then they are no better. I really hope they let us have a little more than, "words" with him, by the end of Endwalker. I have never hated a character so totally, and never so immediately.

Pretty much my exact reaction.

MSQ Thoughts:

So, the argument Dad makes for disowning the twins: He basically calls them warmongers, claiming they seek conflict as a solution to situations that could be solved by more "enlightened" and peaceful means. Now, you could, theoretically and with great stretching, accuse Alisaie of this. I'd argue against it, but she *is* at least more aggressive than she is passive. But Alphinaud? When it comes to the boy, the accusation is completely irrational on the face of it.

I see 3 real options here.

Option 1: Dad is a jackass, and he (and Sharlayan) is inflicted with plot-induced stupidity. I say this b/c the argument he makes for disowning the twins is irrational and stupid, and he should know that but apparently doesn't. I think this option is possible, but less likely given the quality of writing we've seen lately.

Option 2: Dad does love his kids, but he is choosing duty/loyalty to his nation over his personal feelings. This would explain a bit how he could enter the meeting and speak so warmly to them at the start, but then flip to give everyone present whiplash with the disowning over irrational straw-man accusations. (Admittedly, this can be considered a subset of Option 1.)

Option 3: Dad is attempting to protect the kids, and/or prevent them from being used against him, by keeping them from coming back to/having anything to do with Sharlayan. Its extreme, but if its not safe for them there, and he can't just TELL them that for some reason, the disownment plan is a possible solution. Possible thinking being: if they're disowned, they'll think there's nothing back home for them and won't try to come back. This also explains how he could have greeted them so warmly, talking about their mother and being happy they're healthy etc., while also knowing the whole time he was going to disown them in that meeting. Also explains the irrationality of his accusations; it didn't matter if they made sense, as long as they gave him the excuse he needed for the outcome he wanted.

Also, as Lauront said, we have this:


Regardless of what ends up being true, I do hope for a (Punch him.) option at some point. He upset my kids. /cracks knucles