Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Caurcas

If they are so superior why are they extinct? Furthermore, if our 7/14ths a "person" is solving the problem, that kind of makes them less than us.

Well if we’re trying to be actually lore accurate,which i know is sometimes hard, it’s 9/14th :P. but anyways. They’re extinct because of something completely out of their control. They were attacked by some unknown force that was able to completely counter their powers, hijacking their fears. Lets not forget this led not only to their own deaths, but the star's as well. They researched how to combat it and did, and we cant really compare the current final days considering it has nowhere near the same amount of fuel aka current beings largely lack creation magicks. In regards to the ancients becoming extinct, tjhey were sundered, forgetting their memories of who they once were. I don’t really know how that’s hard to understand? As for us solving the problem, we never do it alone. We’re boosted by a primal if you don’t remember and against each of the unsundered we had multiple plot devices at our disposal whether it be hydaelyn’s blessing or emet’s convocation crystal etc. One of the two primals has already been summoned, exists, and its power is drawn upon by the WoL, so its not really the same situation as the past at all.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Well if we’re trying to be actually lore accurate,which i know is sometimes hard, it’s 9/14th :P. but anyways. They’re extinct because of something completely out of their control. They were attacked by some unknown force that was able to completely counter their powers, hijacking their fears. Lets not forget this led not only to their own deaths, but the star's as well. They researched how to combat it and did, and we cant really compare the current final days considering it has nowhere near the same amount of fuel aka current beings largely lack creation magicks. In regards to the ancients becoming extinct, tjhey were sundered, forgetting their memories of who they once were. I don’t really know how that’s hard to understand? As for us solving the problem, we never do it alone. We’re boosted by a primal if you don’t remember and against each of the unsundered we had multiple plot devices at our disposal whether it be hydaelyn’s blessing or emet’s convocation crystal etc. One of the two primals has already been summoned, exists, and its power is drawn upon by the WoL, so its not really the same situation as the past at all.

Its quite simple, that race is long dead and gone. No amount of Ancient and Emet-simpery will bring those back a good idea plot wise. The WoL and Co are fixing the problem presented to them in the present, and will most likely succeed given how the story has played out thus far. I would also go so far as to say that the "lesser" being have proven way more adapt at dealing with strife and adversity. They know how to struggle, the Ancients didn't. Furthermore, Azem told the convocation to kick rocks with the Zodiark plan and our WoL is no different.

Two points:

"Sundered beings are unnatural and therefore bad (or worse than unsundered beings)" is fallacious reasoning, specifically an appeal to nature. Just because sundered beings are "unnatural" doesn't mean their existence is "bad" or "worse" than unsundered beings; several times the "lesser" beings of the sundered worlds have proven themselves capable where the unsundered failed. Further taken into a wider context this argument essentially condemns everything "unnatural," up to including Zodiark and the laws he wove to save the world.

Playing the "no headcanon" card means you can't argue that if the Ascians were simply allowed to see their plan to completion the world would go back to the utopian glory days of Amaurot. Nobody knows whether or not this would be the case.

Continue, if you please.

Originally Posted by Cilia

Two points:

"Sundered beings are unnatural and therefore bad (or worse than unsundered beings)" is fallacious reasoning, specifically an appeal to nature. Just because sundered beings are "unnatural" doesn't mean their existence is "bad" or "worse" than unsundered beings; several times the "lesser" beings of the sundered worlds have proven themselves capable where the unsundered failed. Further taken into a wider context this argument essentially condemns everything "unnatural," up to including Zodiark and the laws he wove to save the world.

Playing the "no headcanon" card means you can't argue that if the Ascians were simply allowed to see their plan to completion the world would go back to the utopian glory days of Amaurot. Nobody knows whether or not this would be the case.

Continue, if you please.

Could you explain in what ways, the sundered proved themselves capable where the unsundered failed?

Originally Posted by Yuella

Natural old age death which is a good thing.

Btw, my "natural" response was in regards to this post, which claims the sundered dying of an earlier age is natural and "good." Which, is completely false. It's not natural in the game's setting as the world naturally wasn't split, it was complete.I was responding to them in regards to this so idk why you directed that at me and not them.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

We cared about Alpha.

Which means we are capable of caring about beings technically "lesser" than us, which Emet-Selch says is not possible for Unsundered like him.

They also couldn't have bad thoughts or they would literally think themselves to death.

Originally Posted by Crushnight

Time Travel and shard hopping without giving up the physical body, G'raha and the ironworks successfully time travelled and altered history, G'raha also managed to bring us body and soul to the 1st.

If the Unsundered could do time travel, they would have to undo the Sundering, if the Unsundered could shard hop freely with their bodies none of them would need to posses locals.

Correct me if im wrong, but in order to accomplish their time travel feat, they needed the assisstance of an Unsundered (Omega) and a primal (Alex). So its not really of their own doing, they needed assistance from higher up beings. Rift travel btw is knwon to the ancients - we know it from Hades, because he summons Azem using the ancient incantation. The ironworks feat simply caused the timelines to diverge, that timeline may endure, but it was not changed. So even should the Ancients have resorted to time travel, it would create a new timeline but not alter their own. I'm not saying btw the sundered are necessarily non-inventive, but they are weaker than the ancients in some respects.