Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

I've skimmed past quite a lot of debate here so forgive me if this has been addressed, but doesn't Emet-Selch himself concede that he has gone astray of his own path in his final scene? Is that not the crux of the scene with Elidibus shortly after, where he states that there will be no seeing eye to eye with the Scions, ever, period?

In that scene, Alphinaud points out that Emet-Selch's last wish might have been to Elidibus, too - that the Warrior of Light can be entrusted with the legacy of the Ancients, as well. That's what "Remember us." means: (Remember that we were more than this. Remember us at our best. Remember that we loved this world. Please don't remember us only for what we became.) Y'shtola asks Elidibus if Emet-Selch's own words and wishes mean nothing to him, and he states that if he were there to see Emet-Selch say this, he would have corrected him, as he would have gone astray of the one acceptable truth. In German, he's especially angry, calling him "unworthy of the name Original" if he would ever say that.

And yet once Elidibus is defeated and himself freed, he takes the same point of view. As beautifully devastating as the English line is, French highlights his change of heart even better: "It's already over. All has already been lost. My friends, how could I have abandoned you, to stay here in this world as you went on alone...?" That's the tragedy of his character. His one purpose was to bring people together and advocate for the best outcome, and his sight of "best" was clouded and led him astray.

I feel like almost every "good vs. evil" debate skips over this almost entirely, lol. Everyone made hard decisions and mistakes.

Going into more speculative territory, for all the sympathy and understanding we got out of the Ascians' side of the story, it didn't really help their case that we should lose. At all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the same of Venat: tough decisions, good intentions, no good case that we should lose. Salvation for our beautifully broken world at all costs. The only difference is that Hydaelyn was summoned to support this, so even if she has to go (assuming that can even happen with her plugged into the Lifestream, remember what happened when Zodiark was punched while plugged in), I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bittersweet goodbye.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I've skimmed past quite a lot of debate here so forgive me if this has been addressed, but doesn't Emet-Selch himself concede that he has gone astray of his own path in his final scene? Is that not the crux of the scene with Elidibus shortly after, where he states that there will be no seeing eye to eye with the Scions, ever, period?

In that scene, Alphinaud points out that Emet-Selch's last wish might have been to Elidibus, too - that the Warrior of Light can be entrusted with the legacy of the Ancients, as well. That's what "Remember us." means: Remember what we were more than this. Remember us at our best. Remember that we loved this world. Please don't remember us only for what we became. Y'shtola asks Elidibus if Emet-Selch's own words and wishes mean nothing to him, and he states that if he were there to see Emet-Selch say this, he would have corrected him, as he would have gone astray of the one acceptable truth. In German, he's especially angry, calling him "unworthy of the name Original" if he would ever say that.

And yet once Elidibus is defeated and himself freed, he takes the same point of view. As beautifully devastating as the English line is, French highlights his change of heart even better: "It's already over. All has already been lost. My friends, how could I have abandoned you, to stay here in this world as you went on alone...?" That's the tragedy of his character. His one purpose was to bring people together and advocate for the best outcome, and his sight of "best" was clouded and led him astray.

I feel like almost every "good vs. evil" debate skips over this almost entirely, lol. Everyone made hard decisions and mistakes.

Going into more speculative territory, for all the sympathy and understanding we got out of the Ascians' side of the story, it didn't really help their case that we should lose. At all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the same of Venat: touch decisions, good intentions, no good case that we should lose. Salvation for our beautifully broken world at all costs. The only difference is that Hydaelyn was summoned to support this, so even if she has to go (assuming that can even happen with her plugged into the Lifestream, remember what happened when Zodiark was punched while plugged in), I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bittersweet goodbye.

You hit it right on the head.

Brother stay this descent to madness
Come and save us. Catch us before we fall

Like broken angels, wingless, cast from heavens' gates
(Our slumb'ring demons awake)

We only fly when falling, falling far from grace
(Hell take us, heaven can wait)

For all his talk of being an Emissary, he didn't leave a lot of room for talking. Once he saw the deaths of his brothers in arms he made the fatal flaw of rushing the situation. Could have waited. Could have genuinely asked us to find a way to coexist. Splitting timelines is an actual option here. We don't have to share one for crying out loud.

"To strive for the best of all futures... Be that not also thine purpose?" - Urianger.

Sundered beings have shown they have both ingenuity (in Bad Future Cid's invention of interdimensional time travel) and valor (the PC and Ryne triumphing over the Fatebreaker, a primal incarnation of the latter's worst fears akin to a specially targeted Terminus beast) unsundered beings lacked. It could be argued that every time a sundered being triumphs over their fears they prove themselves capable of something unsundered beings aren't. (Mitron in particular shows great consternation with "imperfect beings" triumphing where unsundered beings failed.)

Whether or not the interdimensional time travel was derived from "artificial" sources is irrelevant - a sundered being accomplished what was deemed impossible.

Yes, thank you, part of Emet-Selch and Elidibus' dying words are acknowledgement they have strayed and their battle was already lost, respectively.

I'm fine with "it's a matter of perspective," but if that's the case there's no point in discussing or arguing about it because people simply won't see eye to eye. Therefore there is no need to knee-jerk respond to people denouncing the villains' antagonists' actions with a lecture on why their point of view is wrong or incorrect, regardless of their stated reasons; therefore there is no point in posting page-long diatribes in a vain attempt to sway anyone to your point of view (which is why I refrain from doing so).

Funny enough, Yoshida gave an interview to Steven Messner of PC Gamer last month after Fan Fest. Time travel might be back on the menu Ladies and Gentlemen.

"With the 10 year-plus history, we were able to tie up a lot of loose ends and with the climax there will be more questions that are answered and people will understand the reasoning behind a lot of things that have been present throughout the story," Yoshida told me. "With that being said, there are areas within planet Hydaelyn where we haven't explored yet. There are continents that have yet to be discovered, areas that have yet to be explored. There's possibilities there. And with the story of Shadowbringers, we learned that the Crystal Tower acts as a portal not just to the distant Realms, including The First and those that have been divided by the Sundered, but it can also allow us to travel in time as well so we can go back to the past and future as well. So there's still a lot of possibilities left."

https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...ter-endwalker/

Didn't we just feed a certain crystalline tower an ancient soul brimming with power? Hmmm...