Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Friendly reminder: Whataboutery is not a valid argument. It is a propaganda tool designed to imply that all actions, regardless of context and magnitude, share a moral equivalency; therefore since nobody is perfect all criticism is hypocritical, and thus everyone should be free to do whatever they want.

The point I'm making is that whatever skeletons may be in Eorzea's closet don't excuse the Garlean Empire's actions. ("Yeah, it's true the Garlean Empire acts with unprovoked aggression against Eorzea... but what about Ul'dah using zombie powder on Sil'dih?")

This "logic" doesn't solve a problem or win an argument; it just incenses the people on the other side and purposefully muddies the issue.

Now please, continue. Without the faulty "logic" / propaganda tool, if you please.

Originally Posted by Cilia

Friendly reminder: Whataboutery is not a valid argument. It is a propaganda tool designed to imply that all actions, regardless of context and magnitude, share a moral equivalency; therefore since nobody is perfect all criticism is hypocritical, and thus everyone should be free to do whatever they want.

The point I'm making is that whatever skeletons may be in Eorzea's closet don't excuse the Garlean Empire's actions. ("Yeah, it's true the Garlean Empire acts with unprovoked aggression against Eorzea... but what about Ul'dah using zombie powder on Sil'dih?")

This "logic" doesn't solve a problem or win an argument; it just incenses the people on the other side and purposefully muddies the issue.

Now please, continue. Without the faulty "logic" / propaganda tool, if you please.

You’re free to leave if it bothers you, again it seems like when people point out flaws on the Eorzea side, people try and defend it blindly. Way to stifle discussion though, congratulations on that. My points anyways, were in regards to people mentioning specific things Garlemald has done and Eorzea doing the same. Perhaps you should go back and read it instead of trying to come in without any prior knowledge. Just food for thought. It isnt even an argument anyways, its just more of a debate which is a nice discussion. No reason to stifle it lol.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You’re free to leave if it bothers you, again it seems like when people point out flaws on the Eorzea side, people try and defend it blindly. Way to stifle discussion though, congratulations on that. My points anyways, were in regards to people mentioning specific things Garlemald has done and Eorzea doing the same. Perhaps you should go back and read it instead of trying to come in without any prior knowledge. Just food for thought. It isnt even an argument anyways, its just more of a debate which is a nice discussion. No reason to stifle it lol.

Revelation from patch 5.5 part 2: Garlemald is a failed Empire. The end. Thanks for playing.

But in all seriousness, what really do Garlemald sympathizers expect? We get glimpses of their point of view and that's it. Any morale high ground that they may have goes out the window when you consider that one of the more morale leaders they had allowed the rape and enslavement of an entire nation? The Emperor was ok with it too! Who can honestly say that they would condone that from an ally?

It's not like Hien didn't do the same thing when it came to allowing Yotsuyu's old master a free pass either. I understand both sides have a point of view, I just hate that I have to sit around the fire holding hands with these people as if they don't completely offend me. It's a game luckily. None of this is real and citing real world conventions of war is a moot point at best.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Also, for what it's worth...I don't care for head canon and instead debate from the direction of the story being told not from the perspective of mine or anybody else's character but rather the perspective of the established protagonist

Well, I only ever discuss the story from the perspective of an extremely gay catboy, his adopted children, and his squad of incredibly talented groupies.

Originally Posted by Riastrad

Revelation from patch 5.5 part 2: Garlemald is a failed Empire.

Garlemald 'failed' due to circumstances outside of its control such as sabotage from within and without. Though thankfully Save the Queen highlighted that Garlemald did many things right, to the point where the uncorrupted aspects and original goals were effectively embraced for Bozja itself.

Furthermore, Eorzea itself would have 'failed' many times over if not for the direct intervention of the Warrior of Darkness as well as many other convenient plot devices in play. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing - there's a lot about Eorzea that I like and wouldn't want to see destroyed.

It would've been pleasant to see a Garlemald inspired by Archades from FFXII, granted, though I think what we received in FFXIV had plenty of interesting elements in play nevertheless. Presumably many will continue to exist moving forward given that the displaced Garleans will require a new home either through relocation or reconstruction efforts. It's made pretty clear by the story's trajectory that bad blood between nations is quite readily cast aside and I see no reason why Garlemald will differ on that front when it has been involved in conflicts for far less time than the thousand year long war between Ishgard and Nidhogg's brood.

That Garlemald actually had real stakes (along with the other antagonists in the setting) also makes it inherently more interesting to me as a result. Then again, I grew up with FFIX and FFXII as my two favourite Final Fantasy titles - both of which had interesting consequences in spades.

Originally Posted by Fenral

Well, I only ever discuss the story from the perspective of an extremely gay catboy, his adopted children, and his squad of incredibly talented groupies.

Fair enough. Each to their own and all that.

Originally Posted by Theodric

It 'failed' due to circumstances outside of its control such as sabotage from within and without. Though thankfully Save the Queen highlighted that Garlemald did many things right, to the point where the uncorrupted aspects and original goals were effectively embraced for Bozja itself.

Furthermore, Eorzea itself would have 'failed' many times over if not for the direct intervention of the Warrior of Darkness as well as many other convenient plot devices in play.

Yup. Because we, my dear sympathizer, are the good guys.