Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Originally Posted by KageTokage

If the other translations made it clear as to who/what they were referring to as the "dreamer"...

...then I now feel about 99.9% certain that Anima is the being responsible for the towers; moreso with it potentially being a nod to the fayths of FFX.
Though now I'm wondering how the thing was created even moreso.

I was thinking about this a bit, as well. My darksteel-foil-hat-insane-brain wanted to sprint in the direction of

combining several technological feats we've seen before where the tempered are locked in torpor to maintain a primal's continued manifestation Allagan-style; tower draws in aether, combines with the torpid faith, maintains a spiritual entity, projects tempering through the tower. On the deepest levels of crazy theory: involving left-over Solus clones and/or Anima as the shared dream of a unified Garlemald and/or Dark future.

Also spending time attacking my own position of "I don't understand how we can possibly start anywhere other than 'Fandaniel wants to be Zodiark's BFF' because there have been no flags that he is not tempered as Emet-Selch said."

In the same line as Emet-Selch breathed that absolute faith in Zodiark's is etched into the very souls of his summoners, he talks about how unrelated individuals can be raised to the offices, but that they tend not to be as trustworthy.

That's the real way to attack my starting point, I think: Fandaniel has no first-hand memories of the Final Days not just because he's a sundered risen with an archive of the Originals' memories instead of his own, but because he's not part of the real Fandaniel at all.

I'm still starting on "Why wouldn't Fandaniel be trying to be Zodiark's BFF?" for now. That domino must be toppled for me to let the other paranoias I have flow, lol.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I was thinking about this a bit, as well. My darksteel-foil-hat-insane-brain wanted to sprint in the direction of

combining several technological feats we've seen before where the tempered are locked in torpor to maintain a primal's continued manifestation Allagan-style; tower draws in aether, combines with the torpid faith, maintains a spiritual entity, projects tempering through the tower. On the deepest levels of crazy theory: involving left-over Solus clones and/or Anima as the shared dream of a unified Garlemald and/or Dark future.

Also spending time attacking my own position of "I don't understand how we can possibly start anywhere other than 'Fandaniel wants to be Zodiark's BFF' because there have been no flags that he is not tempered as Emet-Selch said."

In the same line as Emet-Selch breathed that absolute faith in Zodiark's is etched into the very souls of his summoners, he talks about how unrelated individuals can be raised to the offices, but that they tend not to be as trustworthy.

That's the real way to attack my starting point, I think: Fandaniel has no first-hand memories of the Final Days not just because he's a sundered risen with an archive of the Originals' memories instead of his own, but because he's not part of the real Fandaniel at all.

I'm still starting on "Why wouldn't Fandaniel be trying to be Zodiark's BFF?" for now. That domino must be toppled for me to let the other paranoias I have flow, lol.

Would it not be possible

that Emet and the rest of the unsundered mistakenly believed their ascended sundered brethren were more permanently tempered than they were? Both Fandaniel and Gaia appear in the 5.x patches, both represent sundered Ascians with, to put it lightly, disagreements with the unsundered, and both have rebelled against unsundered/Zodiark. While obvious differences abound, Gaia’s memories seem to pull her dangerously close to siding against Ryne and WoL, while Fandaniel with seemingly all his memories is still going full throttle, the principle, however, seems similar to me.

The sundered Ascians have a complex interplay between the desires of their sundered selves and the desires of the former ancient who originally held their soul, an interplay that can bring conflict or just in general lead to unexpected developments. Perhaps either the original Fandaniel experienced something that would justify this course of action, or perhaps the sundered soul is not swayed by the tempering in the way he might have been initially. Or they raised a random and made a huge mistake. That is also a distinct possibility!

Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Would it not be possible

that Emet and the rest of the unsundered mistakenly believed their ascended sundered brethren were more permanently tempered than they were? Both Fandaniel and Gaia appear in the 5.x patches, both represent sundered Ascians with, to put it lightly, disagreements with the unsundered, and both have rebelled against unsundered/Zodiark. While obvious differences abound, Gaia’s memories seem to pull her dangerously close to siding against Ryne and WoL, while Fandaniel with seemingly all his memories is still going full throttle, the principle, however, seems similar to me.

The sundered Ascians have a complex interplay between the desires of their sundered selves and the desires of the former ancient who originally held their soul, an interplay that can bring conflict or just in general lead to unexpected developments. Perhaps either the original Fandaniel experienced something that would justify this course of action, or perhaps the sundered soul is not swayed by the tempering in the way he might have been initially. Or they raised a random and made a huge mistake. That is also a distinct possibility!

To a degree, yes; there's some wiggle room to build the shadow of doubt. I can see a lot of ways to make it work, my trouble is that I don't see the writers actually building anything in those spaces which do make it work. (At least, not ones that are visible yet.)

Even in the Mitron / Gaia example, Mitron's first lines in that very story arc were "I am Mitron, servant of Zodiark." and as soon as Gaia remembers who she was she starts seething Darkness, gets a face-glyph, and has an (unused) recorded battle line in which she shrieks, "In Lord Zodiark's name!" so we know where some developer heads are at, lol.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

To a degree, yes; there's some wiggle room to build the shadow of doubt. I can see a lot of ways to make it work, my trouble is that I don't see the writers actually building anything in those spaces which do make it work. (At least, not ones that are visible yet.)

Even in the Mitron / Gaia example, Mitron's first lines in that very story arc were "I am Mitron, servant of Zodiark." and as soon as Gaia remembers who she was she starts seething Darkness, gets a face-glyph, and has an (unused) recorded battle line in which she shrieks, "In Lord Zodiark's name!" so we know where some developer heads are at, lol.

Good point. I guess it ultimately comes down to

how Fandaniel is characterized. Is he Fandaniel the Ancient or Fandaniel the sundered mortal? Is he the culmination of the unsundereds failure when it comes interacting with their sundered “comrades,” or is he a unique anomaly motivated by his own goals.

Like you point out, we don’t have many other Ascians we can point to who we’re neither working directly under the unsundered nor did not act wholly dedicated to the plan for the rejoining.

Still something has to be going on. Unless Fandaniel is secretly, in some convoluted scheme, still serving Zodiark, its clear he’s an even greater threat to Zodiark than Hydaelyn or Venat. And unless I’m missing something, all we have of his existence before he began working with Zenos is a small, broken, memory contained in his soul crystal. And even that didn’t seem particularly noteworthy, but perhaps that’s the point?

One other thing on the “dreamer”

Perhaps others had already noticed this and I’m just blind, but after Zenos gives permission to take more aether from a source “closer to home,” Fandaniel turns around and, staring up at the tower, yells

The time has come to fulfill your hearts desire! My hearts desire! To relieve those wretched creatures of their meaningless existence!

My initial interpretation was that he was directing this statement to Zenos, but what if he wasn’t? The camera, Fandaniels direction, all seems focused on the tower. The dialogue in other languages also points to this. If all that is correct, then that does narrow down who it could be, as I don’t think many characters would wish to “relieve those wretched creatures of the meaningless existence.” Certainly couldn’t imagine it being Varis. Would an unsundered fit? Emets voice is the narrator in the trailer right?