Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Theodric

Each to their own, I guess, but I don't see the sadism of Yotsuyu and Misijia as being much different to that of the Warrior of Darkness and Scions at this point. Not after the deliberate and sustained physical and mental torture of a medic on the battlefield, cruelly cutting down her friends and comrades right in front of her as she begged for mercy. Not just once but twice - with ample opportunity to take her as a prisoner - and then in the final confrontation she is cut down like a rabid dog.

I mean the scions do not even take part in Bozja and Yotsuyu killed and tortured civilians. I am not exactly sure where the WoD or the scions ever did something similar.

I also did not do the new Bozja zone so I have no idea whats going on there but in the old zones, we are in a war. Of course we will kill the enemies and unlike real life where medics are often just there to threat the wounded these "medics" bascially are warriors themselves. Just because she can also throw out a healing spell does not change the fact that she will surely kill us too if we just stand there and do nothing. (If she has more than one confrontation that also means that she decided to battle us more than once)

Honestly if Misijia just fought against us like a normal soldier and then we got her captured and got asked what to do with her, I could see her being sympathetic because she would (just like we are) just be a soldier in a war. But she was more than that. She spied on us, she captured and tortured Mikoto. She then tempered the minds of her former comrades (and I doubt all of them were horrible to her) and then turned them into monsters. She went beyond a normal soldier.

I am still not seeing how we are even close to that.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

? Alisaie literally speaks highly of him in SB lmao, and so does EE. It says he respects people’s decisions to pave their own path even if he disagrees and it’s why he let them go on their own, so they could do their own thing. She literally says he’s a good dad lol

I looked at the 5.55 cutscenes again and I guess I remembered it a bit more harsh then it was (or maybe its the german version who is that? Cant confirm it right now since I am on a break). But at least when Graha ask her if he is simply concerned for their wellbeing she is kinda like "maybe?". He seemingly never discussed his work with them and Alphinaud does answer that he never replies to their letters, its alway their mother.

Originally Posted by Alleo

(If she has more than one confrontation that also means that she decided to battle us more than once)

Erm...after the first time(which actually, even the first time we're technically invading their territory). It’s literally us hunting her down lmao. She’s tending to her people in the 2nd and third fate and we’re sent to cut her and her people down as she pleads for us to stop. The WoD ain’t in the right here no matter how people want to spin it. It’s war yes but...it’s war mainly caused by the missteps of the Bozjans. If i had any say in the matter i’d have sided with the IVth in a heartbeat because they definitely seemed better than the Bozjans were, and the head bozjan leader even semi-agrees because he literally uses their rules and laws as a guide for the future bozjan laws.

I mean the conflict that was talked about in the meeting (that saved Eorzea) was not just the war. It was bascially a moon falling onto Eorzea and later Bahamut. That just not war. If the scions did not intervere this primal of pure rage would surely not just stop at Eorzeas border. After all it was meant to be a new calamity. (As far as I remember Lousioux came because of that)

None of the city states hated Sharlayan for not coming to them when the battle to take back Ala Mhigo or Doma happened. Heck I dont remember them even mentioning them much.

They only now wanted Sharlayans help because it was a world wide problem. They knew the towers popped up in Doma too and we know from the trailers that they are all over the world. Honestly I am not even sure if the scions truly wanted them to fight at their side or to simply just give them knowledge. Something which they did not give.

But I guess I should stop posting now after all I seemingly have no clue what I am talking about since I have not finished every single content in the game. (Which is only Bozja part two right now, I have after all read about Eureka) Way to try and stiffle conversations.

Edit: Interesting part about Etiquette. I dont remember that our enemies stops attacking us when I am going there as a healer and do nothing. I also remember quite a lot that we had a fate where one woman and her unicorn tried to escape Garlemald because they wanted to put her pet down. Even when she begged for her life she was still attacked and without our help she would have been captured and probably killed. They surely should read up about their etiquette too.

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Let's set aside the fact than Garlemald's whole purpose of existence and creator was to be an agent of chaos/sacrificial lamb. The majority of the major Garlean aligned characters are, for lack of a better word, Madmen. Valens, Nael, Varis, Zenos, Yotsuyu, Asahi, etc... Sure we get a couple that break the mold in the form of Gaius and Regula, but the majority are walking war crimes. So claiming any type of grey morality, outside of a few situations, is wishful thinking at best. As for Misijia, much like Yotsuyu, her character and crappy "redemption" arc ruined the story for me. It would have been better to let her skull of been ground to paste beneath the WoL's boot in DR>

I mean, people seem to forget that the Garleans were literally forced to conquer because they were kicked out of everywhere else. Disregarding that though, it's not as if we and other nations havent committed war crimes. Doma castle flooding? Our mass murdering of various beast tribes etc. It's a war though. As seen in stormblood, both sides do whatever they deem necessary regardless of if its a war crime or not. It just so happens we're on one particular side.It really is just the way war itself is. Again though, if i actually had a choice i would wholeheartedly join the IVth instead of the bozjans in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, people seem to forget that the Garleans were literally forced to conquer because they were kicked out of everywhere else. Disregarding that though, it's not as if we and other nations havent committed war crimes. Doma castle flooding? Our mass murdering of various beast tribes etc. It's a war though. As seen in stormblood, both sides do whatever they deem necessary regardless of if its a war crime or not. It just so happens we're on one particular side.It really is just the way war itself is. Again though, if i actually had a choice i would wholeheartedly join the IVth instead of the bozjans in a heartbeat.

When people have talked about war crimes in this thread, they've constantly shown that they are applying real world war ethics to a fantasy setting/setting that is medieval. There were no such stipulations on combat in the older eras, and our morals don't carry over there. That and people are also showing that they are not entirely cognizant as to what constitutes war crimes.

The flooding of Doma Castle wasn't a war crime in any sense.

Also it's relevant to note that usually what constitutes war crimes for a long time were decided by nations already exercising excessive military power and presence. They're usually brought about post war as a way of punishing the losing side further. All while the winning side reaps in deals made so that leaders can avoid prison/execution.

Also it's laughable that you're asserting the Garleans were "forced" to conquer. They were forced alright, but not just because they were pushed around by the magical races. They were given the means to conquer, and they had their old grudges stoked. But even if we paint them as victims of exploitation, they still murdered hundreds of thousands, used chemical warfare, and did human biomechanical experimentation. Really without cessation for almost a century. And I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

What makes our side right in this war is that the Bozjans/Eorzeans/Nagxians/Domans don't do that kinda crap, and they're resolved to put an end to it. The IVth, however good Gabranth's envisioned utopia is, is still using all means dastardly to try to bring it to fruition. Even if they succeeded in defeating the Bozjans, and then went on to found his ideal nation, it'd fall apart at the seams due to the vast gulf between its founder's vision and the reality of how it came to his hand. I'd never want to be part of something like that.

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Let's set aside the fact than Garlemald's whole purpose of existence and creator was to be an agent of chaos/sacrificial lamb.

Has very little bearing on Gabranth, since he is intending to create a break from the original empire anyhow and do his own thing. So much so, the Bozjan Resistance opts to adopt elements of the 4th Legion's approach into its future regime.

The majority of the major Garlean aligned characters are, for lack of a better word, Madmen.

Valens, Nael, Varis, Zenos, Yotsuyu, Asahi, etc... Sure we get a couple that break the mold in the form of Gaius and Regula, but the majority are walking war crimes. So claiming any type of grey morality, outside of a few situations, is wishful thinking at best. As for Misijia, much like Yotsuyu, her character and crappy "redemption" arc ruined the story for me. It would have been better to let her skull of been ground to paste beneath the WoL's boot in DR>

I.e. if they do write them in a way which is conducive to moral greyness, i.e. the sort of writing Matsuno is very capable of (and exhibited in Bozja), it'd "ruin" the story for you, because it doesn't sate your bloodlust.