Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Not saying they are, more just I'd be annoyed if that's what it turned out to be as you'd expect better from a "man of learning" only way I'd accept it is if they do want the twins and potentially us to come straight to them, then it's working great.

Originally Posted by Theodric

That word again, eh? Well, I suppose it's all a matter of perspective ultimately. Much like humans in the real world, realistic characters in fictional settings are complex and hypocritical.

Personally I don't need a character to grovel in apology for their past actions in order to find them relatable, interesting or sympathetic. I'm also inclined to think that there's plenty of threads present in advance to suggest that a character is worthy of a second look instead of being immediately branded 'unforgivable' and 'unhinged'.

I'm reminded of Yotsuyu and how many here claimed she had zero redeeming qualities or reason for doing what she did only for 4.3 to further highlight already present elements of her backstory and suddenly the tune changed quite drastically.

I suspect we'll see a similar situation come into play with Fourchenault.

To her dying breath I hated Yotsuyu, her only saving graces was she made Goesetsu a better character, all my dialogue choices always reflected that, I cared about Goesetsu not Yotsuyu or Tsuyu, her other saving grace is her boss fight is fun.

Fourchenault did a jerk move here but he isn't irredeemable like Yotsuyu was, I believe he disowned his children to manipulate them into coming home, I am positive he knows his own daughter well enough to know she is headstrong and would want an answer from him, now whether or not he wants them to come home for their protection or to change the Forum's mind on something he personally doesn't approve of is pure speculation.

That said I do still want to call him out or punch him because he looked down on my character the man was a jerk.

Originally Posted by Crushnight

To her dying breath I hated Yotsuyu, her only saving graces was she made Goesetsu a better character, all my dialogue choices always reflected that, I cared about Goesetsu not Yotsuyu or Tsuyu, her other saving grace is her boss fight is fun.

Fourchenault did a jerk move here but he isn't irredeemable like Yotsuyu was, I believe he disowned his children to manipulate them into coming home, I am positive he knows his own daughter well enough to know she is headstrong and would want an answer from him, now whether or not he wants them to come home for their protection or to change the Forum's mind on something he personally doesn't approve of is pure speculation.

That said I do still want to call him out or punch him because he looked down on my character the man was a jerk.

Same in regards to Yotsuyu, except I'd say she had one more redeeming quality, taking Asahi out of the story with her. Even if his body is being repurposed now.

There were the bones of a compelling story and good character there. But they made the classic mistake of going in too hard too fast with the evil. Like, when you're coercing peasants to murder eachother for your own amusement, simply because they're from the same NATION that wronged you, who had NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH PERSONALLY I find it kind of hard to care about her admittedly legitimately messed up background. Trauma is not an excuse to murder and torture people.

Same thing with the roe traitor person from Bozja whose name escapes me at the moment, they had her go in too far with the sadism after her betrayal for me to consider the option of 'it was the commanding officer's fault actually don't execute her.'

This is something you see a lot in some games and anime where they try to redeem a character with a sad backstory or something, but they went too far with the intial evil and sadistic nature of them for me to care. A sad backstory is not an excuse for being a terrible person.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

In Fourchenault's case, it's probably because no matter what his motivations, it still doesn't excuse his actions. Currently every potentially sympathetic reading of his possible motivations lead to the conclusion that Fourchenault is either very stupid, or still a jerk for choosing this method anyway. My expectation is that if Fourchenault is revealed to have the twins' best interests at heart, the writers will again conveniently forget that he chose to use this method, instead of any other.

I don’t think every possible reading makes him out to be stupid or a jerk. I think people are just being purposely ignorant towards him because he verbally hurt “their children.” If he has them in his mind and he is doing what he’s doing for the betterment of the world, which is entirely possible, then no that isn’t really stupid or him being a jerk. I would hope the writers don’t just repeat past story contrivances because that’s extremely lazy. But based on how much we know currently i don’t think it’s going to be anywhere as simple as everyone is making it out to be. People need to get over that someone was actually “harsh” to the twins for once lmao.

Each to their own, I guess, but I don't see the sadism of Yotsuyu and Misijia as being much different to that of the Warrior of Darkness and Scions at this point. Not after the deliberate and sustained physical and mental torture of a medic on the battlefield, cruelly cutting down her friends and comrades right in front of her as she begged for mercy. Not just once but twice - with ample opportunity to take her as a prisoner - and then in the final confrontation she is cut down like a rabid dog.

Originally Posted by Alleo

Because people care about these two and seeing how they are still teenagers some of us simply might see them as family. (Just like Edmont sees the WoL as part of their family) And even if he has a plan, disowning his children, who really went through a lot, is just horrible. Things like that can mentally hurt people and we see it with Alphinauds reaction afterwards.

Even if all that is for some greater good (and we dont even know that) it was still done in a way that hurt his own children.

If it’s a matter of the world vs hurting his kids feelings, i’m sure the latter more than justifies it. They’ll get over it as i’m sure they’ll have some expansion long arc about how the wol is their new parent and the scions are their true family yadda yadda. It might just be what helps Alphinaud and Alisaie grow up tbh. With Arenvald’s hero worship of Alphinaud certainly not helping him much this patch, i think what the dad did might just be the kick in the head he needs.

I think it's fine for a nation to decide not to involve itself in foreign affairs and cling to a stance of neutrality. In turn, they shouldn't expect any help from others if they themselves find themselves in trouble.

It wasn't as if they didn't attempt to do anything to diffuse tensions, either. They sent diplomats to Garlemald in an effort to dissuade Eorzea from being conquered and their words fell on deaf ears. They chose to withdraw from Eorzea rather than stand and fight - and their choice should be respected, as far as I'm concerned.

To me, it's just a case of the likes of Alphinaud and Alisae being so selfish that they believe that every nation needs to conform to their world view and if they do not then they need to be strong armed into changing their mind.

As for the family squabbling, the twins have long since overstayed their welcome in the story for me so at this point I'm rather indifferent to their 'plight'. Their father already respected their decision to take their leave of Sharlayan in favour of following in their Grandfather's footsteps, even if Fourchenault disagreed with it. Sure, he might have disowned them but I don't think that is going to hit them as hard as some seem to be implying. For starters, they've barely mentioned their mother or father up until this point, they're not lacking in supportive individuals around them and they've already been throwing themselves headfirst into danger on repeated occasions.

Originally Posted by Alleo

I mean we already at least know about his stance with his own father who simply wanted to save Eorzea. (And we know how that would have ended if he was not there?) Alisaie also does not talk that greatly about him either, saying that he barely even stayed in contact with his kids. And now he was shown as someone straight up disowning his children while others are there too.

I think it should be quite reasonable that not everyone still likes him and thinks of him as an awesome person.

? Alisaie literally speaks highly of him in SB lmao, and so does EE. It says he respects people’s decisions to pave their own path even if he disagrees and it’s why he let them go on their own, so they could do their own thing. She literally says he’s a good dad lol