Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Wavaryen]

Ya, no matter how much you would like this. The developers gave reasons why they don't want it. And also we have examples of other mmos and what the player base do with that tools.


I mean we can't even debate or disagree without acting childish on both sides. So this thread kinda answers the questions on why they feel how they do.

[Artemiz]

Im actually quite impressed that after over 15 years of arguing about parsers we can still hit a 30 page thread about them.

The answer is no, you can't have them, the devs have never moved so much as an inch on this. You can't have them because people will use them as a stick to beat others with. If you have ever communicated with players using 3rd party aps like Discord then you already know this is true. If you allow their use in game arguments will flare up in anything harder than copperbell mines.

The devs know this, so they won't let you have parsers and anyone who thinks they won't get used in a very negative way frequently is either naive or lying.

[Katie_Kitty]

Im actually quite impressed that after over 15 years of arguing about parsers we can still hit a 30 page thread about them.

The answer is no, you can't have them, the devs have never moved so much as an inch on this. You can't have them because people will use them as a stick to beat others with. If you have ever communicated with players using 3rd party aps like Discord then you already know this is true. If you allow their use in game arguments will flare up in anything harder than copperbell mines.

The devs know this, so they won't let you have parsers and anyone who thinks they won't get used in a very negative way frequently is either naive or lying.

Anyone who thinks they aren't already being used that way is either naive or lying. This is no different from saying "no pot shops in my hometown!!" Guess what, cannabis is already being sold in your home town, just not by responsible people.

[Wavaryen]

Anyone who thinks they aren't already being used that way is either naive or lying. This is no different from saying "no pot shops in my hometown!!" Guess what, cannabis is already being sold in your home town, just not by responsible people.

Sure, but it is reportable if you talk about it in the game chat. Or say hey you random person in this queued group. Your dps sucks our healer is beating you blah blah. I mean whatever players do outside the game in discord or whatever is up to them. The GMS are very harsh on players who talk down to others. And in other mmorpgs this tool is used for it.


Sure, you could say adding it to the game and report players who do that can still be done. Why can't we have both? Well if history shows us anything, a ton. MMO players can be some of the most fickled, hardcore, hateful bunch. We seen this, and As this game get bigger and bigger we are getting more and more of them types of players. It can't be helped. So picture just how much work the GMS going to have to do once it gets added and ok to talk about with players?


So it is better to have the fear of being banned, and keep things either to yourself or outside the game. Than bring it into the game itself. That is what developers feel and after playing other mmorpgs. I can't blame them.

[RushRiviera]

Lots of interesting ideas and differing opinions in this post, so I took the time to try to come up with a system that addresses all the different concerns while also appealing to the desires of many others. it's quite long and I've had to go into detail across 3 separate posts so I decided to give it it's own thread. You can find it here if you're interested: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ormance-system

[VelKallor]

I had my bad experiences, one of which that lead me down the path to get into hardcore raiding.

i did my time in hardcore raiding years ago. The environment, the massive imbalance between good raid leaders and those on ego trips coupled with a sewer for a mouth was another reason. I can count on the fingers of ONE HAND the number of raid leaders and guild leaders who did not use dps meters as a blunt instrument to beat people over the head with, cheat them out of gear or other items, and as noted, resort to behaviour and language that they would NEVER DARE use in public.

It is open to widespread abuse. THAT is the key reason it never will be in the game.

You can comment all you like on the perceived or believed "validity" of such meters, those of us with a large amount of experience already know full well where that road leads.

I do understand that the negative experiences one faces tend to having a more lasting impact on a person though I do largely think that people in general are overselling how bad parsing has made other games like WoW.

Awha: if anything, i was UNDERSTATING my experiences. The real truth cant be posted here for obvious reasons.

As for Arthars

Final Fantasy XIV suspends a streamer for shaming another player live on his stream. ... Case in point: The streamer Arthars was suspended from the game on a stream due to harassing another player due to damage numbers

[Awha]

i did my time in hardcore raiding years ago. The environment, the massive imbalance between good raid leaders and those on ego trips coupled with a sewer for a mouth was another reason. I can count on the fingers of ONE HAND the number of raid leaders and guild leaders who did not use dps meters as a blunt instrument to beat people over the head with, cheat them out of gear or other items, and as noted, resort to behaviour and language that they would NEVER DARE use in public.

It is open to widespread abuse. THAT is the key reason it never will be in the game.

You can comment all you like on the perceived or believed "validity" of such meters, those of us with a large amount of experience already know full well where that road leads.



Awha: if anything, i was UNDERSTATING my experiences. The real truth cant be posted here for obvious reasons.

As for Arthars

As mentioned his comments were regarding his damage numbers. The act of parsing itself was not what got him banned. His comments regarding their play which was brought on by the player egging him on and talking trash so he called him out which did lead to a witch hunt against the player. I was watching the stream when it did happen. Do not get me wrong what he said was harsh but it was the boiling point.

I was also in hardcore raiding and can count on one hand how my raid leaders I ran into that used parsing as you mentioned. Yes I did have raid leaders that did award loot based off role and performance and I guess depending on who you ask that could be seen as using it as a weapon. Though when you sre part of the team such things should be considered when it comes to distributing loot since especially early on you want to make sure you are getting the value out of the item to make each kill progressively easier.
You see this can go both ways. Trust me I understand you have had a negative experience with them and they leave a sour taste in your mouth. I am sorry I still think maybe for you it was different though for most people if they had the ability to catalog each of their encounters with parsing most probably would fall in the neutral category where nothing of note happened. Though sadly we really do not have this ability so we can only really recall the ones that leave some impact on us, which for the most part would be the negative ones. Overall I get you why you have a strong disdain for the tool, in the end I still fall into the camp that your beef is less with the tool and more so how people use it. Though we already have tools in place fo combat such issues as your point with Arthars tool itself is not what got him banned but was more so how they used the tool.

I cannot comment on the language part since I really do not care if someone uses foul language or anything like that does not personally bother me though once again I can understand why that may bother you if that type of thing irks you. Though I do largely think the way information is conveyed is irrelevant personally. I just care about the accuracy or the reason for the comments not what was said. So I also cannot speak for how people may word things cause none of that really bothers me either. Like when I was told to kill myself for playing like shit back in my early WoW days.

So I do get my experience differs greatly from many since from what I can see I generally do have a higher tolerance for such things then most so even my view has a degree of bias I will openly admit that. Though I am sorry if I still think that overall people are overstating the negative encounters they had with parsing.

[VelKallor]

I cannot comment on the language part since I really do not care if someone uses foul language or anything like that does not personally bother me though once again I can understand why that may bother you if that type of thing irks you.

Id say it would irk almost everyone,. No one talks to me like that, not in person, not elsewhere.

Where do you get this idea anyone has a right to hurl abuse anytime they feel like it, and the other person needs just sit there and take it?

No they dont and I dont. Ever. I had a friend who did that to me once. I disowned him. Had someone do that to me ingame. Blacklisted forever. If you cant get your message across without resorting to foul language or abuse, then dont talk to me at all.

Though I do largely think the way information is conveyed is irrelevant personally

You have a lot to learn about how to effectively communicate then.

[Rinhi]

Ever. I had a friend who did that to me once. I disowned him. Had someone do that to me ingame. Blacklisted forever. If you cant get your message across without resorting to foul language or abuse, then dont talk to me at all.

You have a lot to learn about how to effectively communicate then.

So do you if that's your immediate response, breaking friendships if someone uses some no no words with/at you
Maybe they were going through hard times and accidentally vented their frustrations out, the first response shouldn't be disowning them for that... unless you're lacking in empathy

[VelKallor]

So do you if that's your immediate response, breaking friendships if someone uses some no no words with/at you

If you cant, or wont, understand why I would want nothing to do with such a person, no amount of explanation will ever suffice.

Maybe they were going through hard times and accidentally vented their frustrations out, the first response shouldn't be disowning them for that... unless you're lacking in empathy

I do not tolerate that kind of abuse. From anyone. Ever, and quite frankly I am astounded that you think I , or anyone else for that matter, should do so either.