Parsers add replayability for casual players

[DPZ2]

Personally I'd be happy with a client side parser, and what I mean by that is only you can see your numbers so no risk of in-game harrasement.

"Link to a screen-shot of your numbers, or you can't join this party. By the way, you'll need to have your gear inspected to ensure your iLevel is at least 30 above content requirement as well."

Followed by "This is bad. How did someone like you ever make level [60/70/80] !? Blacklisted".

[Based on conversations in WoW, where you could actually use a parser].

[Miracle_Diva]

"Link to a screen-shot of your numbers, or you can't join this party. By the way, you'll need to have your gear inspected to ensure your iLevel is at least 30 above content requirement as well."

Followed by "This is bad. How did someone like you ever make level [60/70/80] !? Blacklisted".

[Based on conversations in WoW, where you could actually use a parser].

If you can't join That party, join another one or make your own with your own rules. What is the problem here?

[DPZ2]

If you can't join That party, join another one or make your own with your own rules. What is the problem here?

I was being "polite" ... I'd be banned from the forums to relate actual conversations.

[Miracle_Diva]

I was being "polite" ... I'd be banned from the forums to relate actual conversations.

But I still don't get why does it matter. If you're being harassed in 14, report them, block them and move on. You can't change how some people act (there's probably a big reason why they are like this, but no one actually cares about that stuff) and they pay for bad behavior with getting banned. You're not losing anything from joining another party or making your own.

[Shurrikhan]

"Link to a screen-shot of your numbers, or you can't join this party. By the way, you'll need to have your gear inspected to ensure your iLevel is at least 30 above content requirement as well."

Followed by "This is bad. How did someone like you ever make level [60/70/80] !? Blacklisted".

[Based on conversations in WoW, where you could actually use a parser].

I'm guessing you haven't been on WoW in a while?

Any content prior to the latest expansion is level-scaled. However, the scaling is such that low levels are effectively, in their one- to three-button spam, supercharged as if benefiting from a level capped player's full toolkit's worth of cooldowns at all times. "Damn, you're putting out numbers like you're still level 10" would be a complement. Except, people don't really talk about numbers. They didn't much before, as they were useless without context, and they certainly don't now, as scaling has made them utterly useless for figuring out performance during leveling unless one is familiar with how much that spec can put out with X relative gear at Y level across Z number of enemies.

By the time you get to upper content, such as Mythic+ (which caps its rewards at level 15 but technically continues upwards indefinitely, and is presently nearing level 30 for the world's best groups), parses still play very little part except in informing tanks of safe pull sizes when working with PuGs. That aspects has been replaced, ultimately, with Raider IO, which is essentially a sum of dungeon difficulty levels cleared. If I want to see who to invite to my +10, I look for those who have timed at least an average of +9, which is what raider IO then tells me (though it's rather more lenient and granular than mere pass/fail checks). That's it. In difficult content, there is literally no way to replace someone anyways, and the parses are irrelevant outside of specific contexts of comp, tank style, party ambition, dungeon, difficulty, and affix, so you just go by what people have done so far.

Please don't take this as a wholesale defense of M+. There's a ton wrong with it, especially in terms of creating unnecessary points of conflict among players. But parsers at best form some manner of explanation for why someone left a failing group (e.g. repeatedly wiping to what should have been an easy boss or taking forever on would-be easy trash) after they'd already left it. They do not influence your joining a group (they've little correlation to success and are entirely falsifiable) and they do not influence your remaining in it (because you literally cannot be replaced anyways).

And for anything under M+ difficulty, your relative throughput scarcely matters.

Raids, meanwhile, are no more likely to check your logs until Mythic level than a Savage PuG would be here, and certainly will not accept, let alone require, a screenshot of your parses. (And, as mentioned before, fflogs (and warcraftlogs, for that matter) do not need live parsers to operate; they are a separate technical matter, even if they may share "parse culture".) Rather, they will simply look at your ilvl, whether you've completed at least up to the prior boss, and compare those two factors against competing candidates.

[Sotaris]

"Link to a screen-shot of your numbers, or you can't join this party. By the way, you'll need to have your gear inspected to ensure your iLevel is at least 30 above content requirement as well."

I wouldn't join that party, simple as that. Or making my own PF group. Also this type of scenario would be quite rare overall as people don't request your fflogs today for PF minus a scarce minority that I wouldn't be joining any how.

[ForteNightshade]

"Link to a screen-shot of your numbers, or you can't join this party. By the way, you'll need to have your gear inspected to ensure your iLevel is at least 30 above content requirement as well."

Why are you entitled to join someone else's party? They could put up "only catgirls in bikinis are allowed" and it's perfectly valid because they put up the PF.

Followed by "This is bad. How did someone like you ever make level [60/70/80] !? Blacklisted".

This is nonsense. Unlike you, I've actually been in parse parties or in PFs where people are clearly aiming for logs. They very rarely care about you beyond whether you met the PF requirements and are able to perform mechanics. If the party isn't up to snuff, they'll likely ditch without saying a word. Some random person they meet in PF will likely be forgotten within an hour unless they stand out in some specific way. In fact, Arthars and Xeno, two notorious streamers who are often cited as "bullies" have said as much. They don't remember you nor do they care beyond the moment you're failing a mechanic which wipes everyone else.

The idea people would suddenly start blacklisting you for poor gear is pointless fearmongering. Unless your gear is so bad, you can barely live an AoE.

[DPZ2]

The idea people would suddenly start blacklisting you for poor gear is pointless fearmongering. Unless your gear is so bad, you can barely live an AoE.

Not 'poor gear'. Not having gear that is at least 30 iLevels above that required for the content.

Meh, it was a thing. You apparently never lived through those days in WoW.

[Awha]

Not 'poor gear'. Not having gear that is at least 30 iLevels above that required for the content.

Meh, it was a thing. You apparently never lived through those days in WoW.

Though even in WoW if people wish to have their group be 30 ilvls higher what exactly is the issue if that is the desire of the group?

I mean in DF I sometimes already boot first time players in certain dungeons if they are playing crital roles cause I rather not deal with it. Sure it may be rude and a asshole response but end of the day if the group wants a certain standard I do not see why it is such a large issue.

The topic isn't black or white though.

Some people want parsers and don't care how toxic the game becomes after it.

Some people do not want parsers at all and think that adding them will definitely make the game completely toxic the moment they are allowed.

Some people on both sides of the issue realize that there is a risk to adding parsers and what impact it will have on this game's community. Will the moderators be able to prune the toxic people out of the game before they do enough damage to the reputation? Perception is reality and if too many people voice their bad experiences due to parsers, it could give a bad perception, even if those experiences make up a vast minority of runs.

As for me, I'm fine with their current stance with parsers because I'm not sure the benefit of parsers is worth the risk mentioned above given the current position on parsers.

I have mentied all of that in one of my earlier posts though in reality this issue is still rather black and white. Parsing is a tool the perception does not change that. To bar access to a tool because of a poor experiences which from just a seer logical perspective the negative experiences would fall into the minority when weighed against the natural or postive encounters across the board for everyone who has had experience with them. Sure you get some outliers but to make a policy around a perception of negative experience largely boils down to as I said in my other well we cannot confirm or deny the impact so let us just cater to the possible negative outcome.

If people were for the most part being honest majority of the complaints against having an open stance for them largely comes down to feelings though.

It is just a tool, run into an asshole report black list and move on. Why is prevention is so important when it comes to this issue. I mean I get why an open stance is not good for image of the game and does run the risk of alienating people especially those that use this game as the heaven away from WoW.

[Baxcel]

I mean in DF I sometimes already boot first time players in certain dungeons if they are playing crital roles cause I rather not deal with it. Sure it may be rude and a asshole response but end of the day if the group wants a certain standard I do not see why it is such a large issue.

Wow I wish we could downvote or give negative to thr like system because this is toxic as it comes.. I mean I've seen some of the stuff you post here all the time and yeah it's all basically this bad when it comes to insulting and attacking new players.. just because your a speed junkie whose gotta clear a new dungeon in a third of a second dosnt mean you should be able to treat people like that.. go level up some dam trusts and stay outta the roulettes..