Male Viera names?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Think it’s also important to note since it’s a fantasy game they don’t take every real life approach/don’t have the same logistics or even biology as us. So it may not be something that even pertains to them unlike IRL.

[YianKutku]

I imagine that, with the male models now completed, they could easily add a transgender Viera or two to an existing settlement. It may have already been established that nobody has ever seen a male Viera, but that would still be true if they met an AMAB Viera. It would be a very easy retcon.

I'd be overjoyed to see this, yeah. It would be amazing and awesome and all sorts of superlative descriptors.

And it would also help with my confusion about Matsuno's answer, implying that he couldn't be specific and direct because he didn't want to spoil.

[Iscah]

I just can't see the society being accepting of people saying "oh, but I don't feel like I'm a man, I'm sure I'm really a woman so I should be able to stay in the village" - not when the ones who do accept their physical gender might not be too happy about being pushed out of the tribe either.

I also think the whole society would just depend on everyone being in the mindset of following their ordained duty and it simply is more about following that physical indication of their role, regardless of what they think of it. eg. "I don't really feel like I've become a man - however that is supposed to feel - but my body indicates that I am, so it's my duty to become a warder."


To be clear, I have no issue with the idea of trans characters in the wider picture of Eorzean society that has a concept of gender similar to modern western society, with male and female stereotypes and the ability for anyone to aspire to any kind of role, but I think it's a waste of interesting ideas to look at the strictly-divided-by-physical-gender tribe and assume they'll have the same attitude to letting people live according to which gender they feel like. The interest comes from figuring out how someone would think about gender from that society's viewpoint, and what they would make of Eorzean social concepts once they got there - basically having to make sense of how they feel and which gender they actually want to identify with rather than what everyone in the tribe, including themselves, thought a straightforward question of body shape.


TL;DR: You need to have a concept of gender before you can decide you don't fit into it, and I don't think Viera would have it in the way we think of it.


Also from a purely practical standpoint (and at least to my awareness), they never go back and add new minor characters to towns unless it's to unlock some kind of new side activity. If we see male Viera NPCs of any gender, they're going to be in places we haven't seen yet.

[Fenral]

I think what I was more getting at is, it's not "not" a concept of gender just because it doesn't kick in until puberty. The implications seem to be they're raised in the village by women, and then sent off to live with the men once "things" become apparent. Yeah, kids are stupid, but they generally start forming an identity well before hormones kick in, and that system basically guarantees the omnipresence of "female" role models to pattern behavior off of.

Because honestly, as soon as I started trying to reconcile that with the "forced into a death game to prove their masculinity because they grew a penis at age 12" thing my brain started to melt. There's... really no way to explore that rigidity in-game while also showing it as necessary or positive without a heaping helping of unfortunate subtext.

You will inevitably get a child perfect for village life who ends up growing in the other direction. The reverse as well. It would be an easier pill to swallow if the truth of Viera ended up somewhere along the lines of "we can make exceptions in either direction depending on the child, and our societal equivalents of your quaint notions of 'gender' are purely based on function."

Sunseekers work because tia always have the option to opt out and come back later (or not at all), while females sticking to the tribe structure choose when they mate with the nunh, and not the other way around. Nunh itself is a voluntary position with very clear disclosures. There's consideration for free will there that keeps the society from collapsing in on itself. (For a no-free-will counterexample, go watch Kemono Jihen.)

[Theodric]

There's... really no way to explore that rigidity in-game while also showing it as necessary or positive without a heaping helping of unfortunate subtext.

The Viera are a fictional race in a fantasy game. They're not the equivalent to modern day humans in the real world, thus their values and cultural beliefs/trends are going to differ. Those who disagree with the status quo take their leave, those who are content with it choose to remain.

This is all getting alarmingly close to the mentality of needing to educate and reform their tribal ways, though.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I would think most, if not all, trans and otherwise not-going-with-the-norm Viera just end up leaving the forest since their society isn't working for them.

For RPers I expect to see "I didn't like the role I was going to be put into so I left" as a backstory for a lot of Viera.

[MikkoAkure]

We can also get an idea of how the males are treated from previous descriptions of male viera, as well as female moon keeper miqo'te attitudes to their males, keepers seeming to be based on viera. it could be a case with the viera that puberty hits the boys hard and they become aggressive/territorial into adolescence and adulthood. Their society could be segregated based on the sexes out of natural necessity rather than strictly custom. A lot of mammals in our world are like this, where the males are cast out on their own after puberty when they become brats. They then go solo or form bands of males and only interact with the rest of their society for breeding.

[Fenral]

The Viera are a fictional race in a fantasy game. They're not the equivalent to modern day humans in the real world, thus their values and cultural beliefs/trends are going to differ. Those who disagree with the status quo take their leave, those who are content with it choose to remain.

This is all getting alarmingly close to the mentality of needing to educate and reform their tribal ways, though.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. We don't have the full story, so all of this is speculation. What little we do have so far pushes the bounds of credibility for some of us who actually enjoy engaging with and critiquing our media on a deeper level. No values judgments are being made, though your knee-jerk reactions are always fairly telling.

That said, I think the Star Trek rule applies. The writers are human, and writings by humans are, by their very existence, explorations of humanity and human nature. Any pretensions otherwise, like "oh, but they're aliens," have only ever been a layer of plausible deniability used to facilitate discussions of issues that tend to make people a bit touchy. Like you and gender norms, which has already been very well established thank you and still contributes basically nothing.

If you don't like the discussion, just move on. I think we'd all prefer it if you kept your word about sticking to the stuff you liked and stopped constantly interjecting about the stuff you don't.

[Theodric]

No values judgments are being made, though your knee-jerk reactions are always fairly telling.

I'd be inclined to state that the poster singling me out for what has to be the tenth or so time would be the 'knee jerk reaction' in this specific case. I don't recall ever speaking to you in-game, but you seem to be familiar with me on some level. That aside...

There's... really no way to explore that rigidity in-game while also showing it as necessary or positive without a heaping helping of unfortunate subtext.

The 'unfortunate subtext' statement is what comes across as passing judgement.

That said, I think the Star Trek rule applies. The writers are human, and writings by humans are, by their very existence, explorations of humanity and human nature. Any pretensions otherwise, like "oh, but they're aliens," have only ever been a layer of plausible deniability used to facilitate discussions of issues that tend to make people a bit touchy. Like you and gender norms, which has already been very well established thank you and still contributes basically nothing.

Star Trek? We're discussing Final Fantasy XIV, rather than Star Trek. That aside, it's a pretty old show I believe and not everybody posting here is going to be familiar with it or even find it to their tastes.

I'm not sure what you're getting at in regards to the 'gender norms' comment. Could you elaborate?

If you don't like the discussion, just move on. I think we'd all prefer it if you kept your word about sticking to the stuff you liked and stopped constantly interjecting about the stuff you don't.

Just as you're free to post wherever you so wish, so too am I. I'm not sure where you're getting this 'we' from, either. Even if others agree with you this place is not a hive mind and we've thankfully moved past the days where narratives were controlled by a small group of active posters.

I'm not at all sure why you seem to think I should not weigh in on the subject of male viera, given that I've been one of the most vocal supporters of their inclusion over on the general discussion forum.

[Fenral]

The 'unfortunate subtext' statement is what comes across as passing judgement.

I mean, I suppose you're welcome to disregard the attached context ("institutionalized child murder," by the way) if that makes it easier for you to paint me as some unreasonable gender crusader.

You didn't actually respond to any of my relevant points re: writing and humanity, so there's not much else I can say to you.