Undercutting crafted items that are "game drop" is a waste of time and money!

[Prrringles]

For me it's mainly the bots that are the problem. I don't care about other players playing "robin hood" or selling cheap to move items fast or whatever, that's a part of any free market in any MMO and supply and demand always balances it out. Other players can sell for whatever price they like.

Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

[Jojoya]

Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

It's different from botting because there's no botting involved.

As long as the other player is using their personal time and effort, they aren't doing anything wrong. They are a legit crafter. It's a free market and we can set whatever price we want, including at/below cost to produce. Not everyone is motivated by profit.

The only losers are those who aren't willing to adjust as the market changes. There's always something that can be sold for profit even if that something isn't what you would personally prefer to craft.

[Kes13a]

It's different from botting because there's no botting involved.

As long as the other player is using their personal time and effort, they aren't doing anything wrong. They are a legit crafter. It's a free market and we can set whatever price we want, including at/below cost to produce. Not everyone is motivated by profit.

The only losers are those who aren't willing to adjust as the market changes. There's always something that can be sold for profit even if that something isn't what you would personally prefer to craft.

I'll have to circle the day on my calendar, I agree with you Jojoya lol

[Kes13a]

Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

thats the only way to make profit. if you are buying materials at inflated prices, you can never make a profit as the margins are too close.
so its MUCH different than botting
bots are cheaters, plain and simple. if someone farms the materials, and crafts the materials, then their cost is going to be far lower than yours, and they can sell far lower and make a profit. period. thats not cheating. at all. its wise time investment. as a legit crafter that farms all my own stuff to craft with, I really dont see your point about undercutting being worse than the bots. yes, I am selling things, yes, I may not make the same amount you do IF you sell something, but I do sell things more often I imagine, which works out to more profit in the long run.

[Prrringles]

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

[Kes13a]

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

I did read carefully the first time, and what you wrote here, is not what you wrote to what I replied to.

[Jojoya]

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

Cool, so you play to be ultra-wealthy market baron. The vast majority of players aren't here to do that. That doesn't make them losers, nor does it make you a winner.

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you. You can lecture on your game economic theories.

It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

[ItMe]

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you.
[...]
It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

Yeah, good point.
I mainly use the market to keep my inventory slim. My selling tactics are focused around that goal more than anything else.

[Prrringles]

Cool, so you play to be ultra-wealthy market baron. The vast majority of players aren't here to do that. That doesn't make them losers, nor does it make you a winner.

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you. You can lecture on your game economic theories.

It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

Clearly I am a winner in the "ultra-wealthy market baron" game. Clearly others are not. That's fine. I'm not talking about other aspetcs of the game. I also said "Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own)". I guess you can't win or lose at having fun. Well technically you can but fun is a different parameter for everyone.

Also what's wrong with complaining? I see everyone complaining is this sub forum. Everyone complains about bots or other things, yet nothing is going to change. Now my type of complaining is suddenly frowned upon. Because when it doesn't concern/effect you, it's suddenly not valid? Just let me complain. You don't have to reply you know. I also don't reply to things that don't concern me eventhough I (sometimes) have strong opinions about some things people say. Normally I don't participate on forums of any kind because there are always handfull of people on every forum that just NEED TO reply on EVRYTHING. Discussions with those people are annoying because they "are always right", or they try to stuff "their truth" through other people's throats. The only reason I came here is because I am/was passionate about this game and had genuine concerns about the growing botting situation. Other than that I am/was blowing off steam, nothing else. I didn't come here to get lectured like a 5th grader by some anonnymous stranger who "apparently" speaks for every majority. I am sure YOU don't see it that way, but I do. I am also sure there will be some social justice type of reply but whatever. Wish you all a great day.

No offence to anyone here, I'm sure you're all delightful people in your own social circles.

[Jojoya]

Also what's wrong with complaining?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with complaining. I just said don't expect it to change others. A lot of your comments come across as "everyone else is playing wrong if they don't play the way I do". There's a huge diversity in the player base when it comes to goals and the marketboard is going to be one of the few places where that diversity collides.