Final Fantasy XIV doesn't actually have that good of a story

[WanderingMist]

I'm not part of the localization team. You don't like the style they went with? Well, tough luck I suppose. All I'm saying is, this fancy talk isn't just to spite the readers. And I provided a plausible explanation, nothing more, nothing less.

If that's all you know about Alphinaud and Y'shtola, you're either way overleveled or you stopped paying attention at some point.

I'm talking about what we know of them at the end of the base ARR storyline, which is a large chunk of the game. Still, if you think I've sold those characters short, then please, give me some unique character traits of Y'shtola or Alphinaud.

[tymora]

Can't really compare MMO stories to Single Player ones imo.

[Garnix]

I'm talking about what we know of them at the end of the base ARR storyline, which is a large chunk of the game. Still, if you think I've sold those characters short, then please, give me some unique character traits of Y'shtola or Alphinaud.

There is certainly a lot to criticize about the story, but saying that Alphinaud did not get any character development...I don't think I can agree with that...

[Garnix]

Nevermind, you specifically mentioned ARR. OK then.

[Herebedragons]

I'm talking about what we know of them at the end of the base ARR storyline, which is a large chunk of the game. Still, if you think I've sold those characters short, then please, give me some unique character traits of Y'shtola or Alphinaud.

That's why I mentioned you being overleveled. Otherwise, at the point where I assume you are (HW patches or starting SB), the characters are more fleshed out than they were in ARR. Besides, their story ends with Endwalker, you can't judge their characterization on the base game alone.

Even if we consider only ARR.

Alphinaud and Y'shtola are both Sharlayan, Y'shtola being one of the Archons who stayed behind when they evacuated the city-state which became Idyllshire right before the calamity. And she's already the sassy expert in aetherology we see later on. If you play SMN, you even learn that she has a sister.

If you run the Coils, you learn more about Louisoix and his relationship with both Alphinaud and Alisaie. In the MSQ, you see Alphinaud as a spoiled lordling, extremely naive, with grand ideals and plans of unification for Eorzea, which all lead us to the Crystal Braves debacle.

So yes, I do believe you were a tiny bit unfair in your assessment.

[WanderingMist]

That's why I mentioned you being overleveled. Otherwise, at the point where I assume you are (HW patches or starting SB), the characters are more fleshed out than they were in ARR. Besides, their story ends with Endwalker, you can't judge their characterization on the base game alone.

Even if we consider only ARR.

Alphinaud and Y'shtola are both Sharlayan, Y'shtola being one of the Archons who stayed behind when they evacuated the city-state which became Idyllshire right before the calamity. And she's already the sassy expert in aetherology we see later on. If you play SMN, you even learn that she has a sister.

If you run the Coils, you learn more about Louisoix and his relationship with both Alphinaud and Alisaie. In the MSQ, you see Alphinaud as a spoiled lordling, extremely naive, with grand ideals and plans of unification for Eorzea, which all lead us to the Crystal Braves debacle.

So yes, I do believe you were a tiny bit unfair in your assessment.

Not for the amount of time we spend with these characters. Again, taking the Conjurer storyline as an example, we get to know Sylvie far better in a fraction of the time than we do with any of the Scions. Maybe we do see some character development and get to know them more in the later expansions, but think of just how long you spend in the ARR storyline before that. We're talking around 50 hours of gameplay where you learn practically nothing about the characters you interact with.

If you're still not convinced, try this little exercise. Take one of the cutscenes where you have multiple Scions in the room talking about something, and swap their lines around. Any of Y'shtola's lines could be said by Thancred or Minfillia or Alphinaud and the conversation would feel and play out exactly the same. Now if you do the same thing with say, the Marvel Cinematic characters, swapping their lines around, it would feel completely off, because each character in that lineup is so well defined (fun fact, the MCU films have about the same runtime as the ARR storyline - 50 hours).

You might say it's unfair to compare a cinematic universe of films to an mmorpg, but the principles of good storytelling and character development apply to both.

[WanderingMist]

Can't really compare MMO stories to Single Player ones imo.

Sometimes you can. I agree that trying to compare any kind of mmorpg with say, The Last of Us, is pointless because in The Last of Us you play as a fully developed character. In most mmorpgs (including ffxiv) you are a silent protagonist so you can't get the same level of character development. That said, there are plenty of games out there with silent protagonists that have great stories and character interactions in them. Some examples include Legend of Zelda, Portal, Skyrim and Dark Souls. The thing is, when you have a silent protagonist you have to put more effort into the world building and NPC interactions than a game where you have a talking protagonist.

[Kolsykol]

I'm not part of the localization team. You don't like the style they went with? Well, tough luck I suppose. All I'm saying is, this fancy talk isn't just to spite the readers. And I provided a plausible explanation, nothing more, nothing less.

If that's all you know about Alphinaud and Y'shtola, you're either way overleveled or you stopped paying attention at some point.

Probably overleveled tbh, you overlevel the MSQ so fast even without doing side-content.

I'm talking about what we know of them at the end of the base ARR storyline, which is a large chunk of the game. Still, if you think I've sold those characters short, then please, give me some unique character traits of Y'shtola or Alphinaud.

It's not actually a very large chunk.
And Alphinaud spends basically the entire expansion of Heavensward with you and gets a ton of development he's essentially the second main character.

In fact, what happens in ARR plays a role in that you'd know that if you had actually played the story instead of playing a small part of it then complain about it.
Things have actual consequences and affect the characters long term and that requires setup.

Characters also actually do things even when they're off-screen that come up later, in most other games your character is the center of the universe that solves all problems but in FFXIV that's not really the case.
In FFXIV characters are active even when they're away from you and then when you meet them again it turns out they've actually been up to something that matters instead of shoving that unto the player too.

[WhiteArchmage]

Characters also actually do things even when they're off-screen that come up later, in most other games your character is the center of the universe that solves all problems but in FFXIV that's not really the case.
In FFXIV characters are active even when they're away from you and then when you meet them again it turns out they've actually been up to something that matters instead of shoving that unto the player too.

*Stares at Hoary Boulder, Coultenet, Riol, F'lhaminn, Arenvald, Isildaure, the minor Domans, basically all the Scions, half the named Ishgardians, the entirety of Doma...*

Talking to the "random" NPCs in the Rising Stones/Waking Sands in-between quests reveals A LOT about the plot.

[MilkieTea]

That's why I mentioned you being overleveled. Otherwise, at the point where I assume you are (HW patches or starting SB), the characters are more fleshed out than they were in ARR. Besides, their story ends with Endwalker, you can't judge their characterization on the base game alone.

Even if we consider only ARR.

Alphinaud and Y'shtola are both Sharlayan, Y'shtola being one of the Archons who stayed behind when they evacuated the city-state which became Idyllshire right before the calamity. And she's already the sassy expert in aetherology we see later on. If you play SMN, you even learn that she has a sister.

If you run the Coils, you learn more about Louisoix and his relationship with both Alphinaud and Alisaie. In the MSQ, you see Alphinaud as a spoiled lordling, extremely naive, with grand ideals and plans of unification for Eorzea, which all lead us to the Crystal Braves debacle.

So yes, I do believe you were a tiny bit unfair in your assessment.

I'd like to tack on that Alphinaud plays the role of upstart adventurer that is typically filled by the main character. Typically those characters are seen as sympathetic but his role in the story leads to that trope being placed in a less than sympathetic light. He's brash, naive, smart yet at the same time so, so dumb. He has a bad case of "must-prove-self-itis," because of his relationship with Louisoix - hell, part of the reason the Crystal Braves came about is because of Alphinaud's incessant need to prove himself and fill in shoes that are 10 sizes too big. He's a teenager, and while it's easy to forget that, he certainly acts the part in MANY ways. This is all in ARR.

Y'shtola is aloof, sassy, and smart. She is extremely capable of handling aether as well as reeling the other Scions in. She's literally introduced as the "Cultured Conjurer" and she's shown to be straightforward and to the point. You absolutely could not swap hers and Thancreds lines - Thancred plays the role of the witty flirty bard. This is all in ARR. She's not featured nearly as much as Alphinaud yet by the end of ARR, you know this... if you were paying attention, that is.