Final Fantasy XIV doesn't actually have that good of a story

[Rinhi]

Honestly 99% of the time I see someone saying 'keep politics out of games' they just mean 'keep politics I don't agree with' out of the game without realizing that games, quite often, actually do have political themes and things inspired by real world issues. It feels mostly like a knee jerk reaction to seeing something in a game they don't want to have there.

there is a big difference between writing a story that has been influenced by real world politics and shoe-horning politics (or some might say, agenda) into a story that doesn't need it because it has enough politics of it's own
when people say they don't want politics in games, they don't want shoe-horned, pandering politics in their f-ing games
nobody wants to feel lectured by the subpar writing of a goddamn game dev who sniffed their own farts too much and thinks their own opinion is the absolute truth and that any kind of differing opinion is wrong and makes you a bad person, i.e. what oh so many indie devs or writers of franchise reboots love to do
should've just linked to this image in hindsight because it says it better than I did

[RyuDragnier]

there is a big difference between writing a story that has been influenced by real world politics and shoe-horning politics (or some might say, agenda) into a story that doesn't need it because it has enough politics of it's own
when people say they don't want politics in games, they don't want shoe-horned, pandering politics in their f-ing games
nobody wants to feel lectured by the subpar writing of a goddamn game dev who sniffed their own farts too much and thinks their own opinion is the absolute truth and that any kind of differing opinion is wrong and makes you a bad person, i.e. what oh so many indie devs or writers of franchise reboots love to do
should've just linked to this image in hindsight because it says it better than I did

Wow, that seriously set you off. Why may I ask are you taking that comment so personally?

[Ammokkx]

Wow, that seriously set you off. Why may I ask are you taking that comment so personally?

While I wouldn't be that aggressive about it, it is pretty infuriating to hear "everything is politics lmao" being parroted as a counterargument to "don't put politics in my game." because it's effectively countering a strawman. People who say "stop with the politics" aren't doing so because they hate politics, they hate really in-your-face propaganda and pandering to any crowd, be it left, right or center.

I'm intimately aware about 95% of writers intentionally put political messaging into their writing and the other 5% do it on accident. The thing is, though, there's a good way to go about it and a bad way.

The good way is that people don't notice it without doing a deep dive analysis or, otherwise, being tasteful enough that it isn't the only thing your game ends up known for.

The bad way is making it so in-your-face it gets really obnoxious and basically the sole defining feature of your game in discourse.

"but what about spec ops" yeah what about spec ops? Game's okay, but it sold like ass because it pretended to be a generic military shooter to make its point. Even then, while "war is bad" is political messaging, a person doesn't have to interpret it as politics if they refuse to. The horrors of war are a tale as old as time itself and enjoying it on that more surface level is perfectly valid, too.

I'd be pretty angry at hearing "you just don't want to hear politics you disagree with" too, considering I hate 'my side of the argument' being dumb as much as I hate the other side.

[RyuDragnier]

The good way is that people don't notice it without doing a deep dive analysis or, otherwise, being tasteful enough that it isn't the only thing your game ends up known for.

The bad way is making it so in-your-face it gets really obnoxious and basically the sole defining feature of your game in discourse.

Neither of these is particularly bad if done right. Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped is a trope for a reason. Spec Ops: The Line is one game that fits this to a T, and is even an example under the Videogames subsection for the trope.

"but what about spec ops" yeah what about spec ops? Game's okay, but it sold like ass because it pretended to be a generic military shooter to make its point. Even then, while "war is bad" is political messaging, a person doesn't have to interpret it as politics if they refuse to. The horrors of war are a tale as old as time itself and enjoying it on that more surface level is perfectly valid, too.

It's political, whether you wish it to be or not. Politics is the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power. War qualifies under that as politics, meaning it is ALWAYS political, that will never be subjective.

I've hated the "keep politics out of my video games" statement for the longest, simply because you will always have politics in video games, especially RPGs where they're a big part of the storytelling. Even if you are against current politics, the current is still the old. We're still dealing with bigotry in all its forms (against the LGBT community, blacks, asians, immigrants, etc), we're still dealing with conflicts that could cause wars (Israel and Gaza), we're still dealing with the corruption of the rich and torment of the poor (companies and minimum wage), we're still dealing with environmental problems, all of this on a daily basis. And all of that is in this very MMO at this moment.

[Nitelancer]

Completely agree. I like the game, but I never felt as immersed in the story as I did in many single player games. It did not leave the same impression as other final fantasy stories either. Maybe it's a good story for this type of MMO format, but that doesn't make it good in comparison to other types of games. I think overall the story arc is good, but the delivery in the MMO format sets it back in terms of immersion and impact.

[Melorie]

The good way is that people don't notice it without doing a deep dive analysis or, otherwise, being tasteful enough that it isn't the only thing your game ends up known for.

The bad way is making it so in-your-face it gets really obnoxious and basically the sole defining feature of your game in discourse.

You don't get to choose what is the "good" way of making games though, that's just a personal opinion. You might dislike TLOU2 overall narrative, that doesn't mean you dislike "politics in game".

Disco Elysium goes DEEP regarding politics, and it is hands down amazing.

[ItMe]

Completely agree. I like the game, but I never felt as immersed in the story as I did in many single player games. It did not leave the same impression as other final fantasy stories either. Maybe it's a good story for this type of MMO format, but that doesn't make it good in comparison to other types of games. I think overall the story arc is good, but the delivery in the MMO format sets it back in terms of immersion and impact.

Lol and yet I honestly think in spite of the format holding it back that 14's is the strongest story of any FF game I've played.
It's all subjective man.

[Ranaku]

FF14's story is not at all hard to understand. This isn't Finnegan's Wake or Ulysses. Quite how people manage to think you need a high IQ to understand FF14's story is beyond me.

I mean you obviously didn't get it, I wonder why that is.

[Reaperking386]

The only thing I have issue with is how indestructible everyone is. Like getting destroyed by magic missles and not being dead or having any visible injuries.

[Rinhi]

Wow, that seriously set you off. Why may I ask are you taking that comment so personally?

i.. don't? i just think it's a stupid argument to be made and that it needs to be mentioned that it's a stupid non-argument used to shame people for voicing their opinion
ammokkx explained it better than i ever could, but i do like how you went straight for the ad hominem with your implication!