[Critical] Male Viera height slider; tall option. Show your support.

[Renik]

Ok so the engine just scales gear based in bone structure, my bad, I didn't know that since I never worked with or used mods, that explains some weird bending and stretching in gear. If it's really possible, ask for it as much as you want, but I really think such a big slider looks weird.

I would just like to see their version of male viera without the effect of "uwu smol" and "gorilla big" players feedback. Remember that this is an existing race with an existing culture and lore that originates in games some of us a very fond of, I would hate to see it destroyed by external opinions, after all this is a numbered Final Fantasy, and no matter what people say, this male viera will end being canon.

Edit: Just wanted to bump this comparison, I think it's very accurate.

https://twitter.com/devalentione/sta...71939722469380

[Amnmaat]

As long as male Viera are taller than the average (Highlander) they will give those who want a tall non-world of warcraft race a good option. Any height chart shown here is a preference and that preference should be allowed and respected.

As for design; height slider does not interfere with the race's design.

Height slider is a feature set by the player; misunderstanding that with the design of the race is a mistake.
The point of contention is how low and how high the height slider will be. It's critical for them to see Male Viera as a choice for those who will change to them as a male character, and as such consider the tall slider option. Until a benchmark is out, they can still be influenced to consider it.

[Roda]

If Lalafell are an obvious outlier, why are Roegadyn and Hrothgar not outliers? Hrothgar is literally an animal that's upright and can talk. And if you claim that it's because of height then Roegadyn would be an outlier as well because of height.

The stereotype of tall races comes into play when you say that you want female Viera to be taller than the males because you that doesn't exist yet in the female to male relationship; thus breaking the stereotype. Yet, the stereotype that I want to see broken is that tall races have to be world of warcraft races, Elezen being an "exception" (but even Elezen can be contested).

Lalafells are outliers because they're outliers

There is a smooth transition from roegadyn to the next race, but there's a massive jump from miqo'te to lalafell. Do you know what "outlier" means?

As long as male Viera are taller than the average (Highlander) they will give those who want a tall non-world of warcraft race a good option. Any height chart shown here is a preference and that preference should be allowed and respected.

As for design; height slider does not interfere with the race's design.

Height slider is a feature set by the player; misunderstanding that with the design of the race is a mistake.
The point of contention is how low and how high the height slider will be. It's critical for them to see Male Viera as a choice for those who will change to them as a male character, and as such consider the tall slider option. Until a benchmark is out, they can still be influenced to consider it.

And a shorter than average (midlander/short highlander) would give those who want a non-tall FINAL FANTASY race more than ONE (+a baby with a mustache) option.

'cause HEY! guess what! The only race we have that could MAYBE be compared to a "wow race" would be hrothgar because yoshi said they wanted to attract players who liked a more savage look.
But Au Ra? Really? This thin, tall, spiky haired pretty-boys? Have you seen these men? I don't even think bloodelves are that pretty.
And Roegadyn/Elezen? They aren't based off of anything from WoW. Like at all. They are L I T T E R A L L Y designed after Galka and Elvaan. From ff11.
You know, the game that came out a full year before WoW, and this game was supposed to be a spiritual successor to?


And if height sliders have no barring on a race's design, then it's cRiTiCaL for me to get a female lalafell slider that lets me be as tall as an Elezen!!! (keep the male short because it doesn't affect them right?)
Oh wait, that would make their unedited geometry WILDLY disproportionate, with heads the size of a roegadyn's chest. And it would have story implications since the First would have to stretch the definition of "dwarf"

So yeah no, that's still a big no from me, chief. Keep their fantastic design as it is, and scale them appropriately based on their proportions, not someone else's unknowable biases in chase of their VERY SPECIFIC view of perfection with total disregard to the entire rest of the game's visual design.

[Starshower]

Hey, why it's so outlandish that they would have a similar height to their female counterpart? All other races are like this, excluding Au Ra.

[Iscah]

But Au Ra? Really? This thin, tall, spiky haired pretty-boys? Have you seen these men? I don't even think bloodelves are that pretty.

Prettymuch. I'd debate the "thin" (they're too broad-chested for that, though they do have skinny legs) but they're definitely pretty - or handsome depending on the face - and the scales and horns aren't really any more strange than the bunny nose and ears. I think they picked up aspects of the Viera concept art to begin with.

[Yencat]

Hey, why it's so outlandish that they would have a similar height to their female counterpart? All other races are like this, excluding Au Ra.

It's not outlandish, people just don't agree with eachother if if it should be like all other races where they're of a similar height but the men are slightly taller at min. and max. height, or if they should be reversed and the women are taller at min. and max. height.

And then there's people that want them either really short or really tall.

[Hunky]

Minds won't be changed by discussion amongst ourselves. Some of us very headstrong in our beliefs
The devs and the release of features into our hands are the only way to prove anything right or wrong.

Agreed 100%.

Arguing and debating about whether male Viera should be tall or short isn't going to go anywhere.

It's more of a personal opinion that can't be proven to be true or correct or morally superior.

On a side note, I think theorizing about what their height is can still be a fun and healthy conversation.

As long as we keep in mind the idea that the devs chose the height they felt was right for male Viera, and we should trust in their vision and execution.

[Hunky]

Hey, why it's so outlandish that they would have a similar height to their female counterpart? All other races are like this, excluding Au Ra.

It's not outlandish, people just don't agree with eachother if if it should be like all other races where they're of a similar height but the men are slightly taller at min. and max. height, or if they should be reversed and the women are taller at min. and max. height.

And then there's people that want them either really short or really tall.

Agreed, not outlandish at all.

I’m going to try to break down this argument as best I can in the most unbiased way I can so people can see what exactly is being argued here. I’ll try to summarize both sides.

First, some background information. The majority of the game’s races follow a common dimorphism rule: that males are taller than females in general.

For example, a max height male Elezen will be taller than a max height female Elezen. However, a minimum height male Elezen will be shorter than that same max height female Elezen.

Most of the races in the game do this, with the exception of Lalafell and Au Ra. Lalafell are the same height no matter male or female, and female Au Ra are disproportionately shorter than the males.

The main argument is whether male Viera should continue to follow this same dimorphism rule or if they should be made shorter than the females, meaning that a max height male Viera would be shorter than a max height female Viera.

If the male Viera follow the common dimorphism rule that the other races do, this would place them between male Highlander and Male Elezen. Notice how female Viera are between female Highlander and female Elezen.

If the male Viera end up being shorter than female Viera by 2-3 inches, they would be around the same height as male Midlanders (Female Viera at max height are taller than max height male Midlanders by only 4 inches).

And if the male Viera are made shorter still, they would be around male Miqo’te height.



A lot of us feel that if male Viera follow the common dimorphism rule, it would provide a new option for players who want to play a tall male race that is conventionally handsome and not bulky or overly bestial (like Roegadyn or Hrothgar).

Another reason is that it would satisfy many players: they would be a “tall option” since at maximum height they would be almost as tall as Elezen, but at minimum height they would be almost as short as Midlander, also being a nice “shorter” option.

However, the opposing side has their own arguments as to why male Viera should be made shorter.

One reason is that male rabbits in real life are shorter than females. Another is that it would be new and interesting to have a “reverse Au Ra” race in which females are taller than males. Lastly, it would also add another “shorter male” option besides Midlander and Miqo’te.

They also have a counterargument: even if male Viera turn out to be shorter than females (around the size of male Midlanders), they would still technically be tall. Therefore, players who want to play a tall, handsome male race would still be doing so, even if male Viera are shorter than females.

The rebuttal to this counterargument is that this uses real-life height standards but doesn’t take into consideration that male Midlanders are outsized by the grand majority of the other male races, making male Midlanders below average. Therefore, a male Viera at that height could not be considered “tall”.

And that’s another point that people argue.

People say Midlanders are indeed average/above average/tall because they would be considered that in real life. In addition, they also argue that Midlanders are the “blueprint”, so therefore everything else is a deviation from them.

On the other hand, people say that male Midlanders cannot be average or tall because they are outsized by most other male races. The only races Midlanders are taller than are Miqo’te and Lalafell. So if you take a more mathematical approach, Midlanders are below average.

So people can’t agree if male Viera being around the same height as male Midlander would qualify as “tall” or “short” or even “average”.

So the compromise (the purpose of this thread) was to propose an extended range in the height slider for male Viera, similar to female Roegadyn.

If you’re not aware, female Roegadyn is the only character type in this game to have a vast range in the height slider (12 inches). At minimum height, a female Roegadyn is 75 inches. At maximum height, she is 87 inches. Everyone else has a much smaller range.

The reason why this was proposed was to satisfy everyone who wanted male Viera, whether tall or short.

However, not everyone likes the idea. And that’s the big argument. Sorry for the crazy long post!

[_Koneko_]

it should have a max height of midlander

[Imora]

I think it's also partly that viera are matriarchal yeah? Would make sense that the females are taller.

At least to me it does.