Living dead must change

[Danelo]

From a healer PoV, even if you have a WHM in the group it doesn't make Living Dead great. Benediction is not just a rare emergency button, it's an extremely potent oGCD and great to weave in on a tank who is low or a dps who got hit by a mechanic to save heal GCD's. When your tank is a DRK and assigned to immune a tankbuster, you lose free access to that part of your toolkit. Other tanks don't have to be healed to full, you can throw a lily and a tetra on them or let the AST ED and any HoT's up or passive raid heals can handle the rest.

Holm is almost too good now. In some fights, having a WAR lets you immune more busters than a non-WAR comp. That's a huge advantage and makes healing so much easier, especially with an AST and because the tank can move the mitigation elsewhere. I'm surprised LD doesn't have the shorter CD so DRK could at least have filled that niche of an extra buster immune instead. But tbh immunes in general probably need looking at.

I don’t check on the healer forums often but I wonder if there is this kind of sentiment, generally, on that side? It seems it would certainly be helpful if there was an outcry from healers to talk about LD being a less than desirable invulnerability that it would push the devs and Yoshi p to do rework it considering the symbiotic relationship between the two roles.

[Derio]

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

[Danelo]

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

Yeah, I agree. That’s why I’m playing other tanking classes for now and dps on rpr for EW. It seems to be the only SE pays attention.

[Ftail]

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

It’ll probably be easier to just let the tank die and revive him after the changes and the expansion of they don’t change it. Lol...

[Salmon_The_Zero]

Like a "Dark Ressurection". You die and insta rez with a regen. Dumb idea i know. Without weakness of course

[Lyth]

I don’t check on the healer forums often but I wonder if there is this kind of sentiment, generally, on that side? It seems it would certainly be helpful if there was an outcry from healers to talk about LD being a less than desirable invulnerability that it would push the devs and Yoshi p to do rework it considering the symbiotic relationship between the two roles.

The last dedicated discussion on the subject was this one: Link

The answer to your question is Swiftcast + Raise.

I think that a stat squish could either ease or worsen the healing requirements on the ability. The proposed 'pure'/'shield' healer split doesn't bode well, unless it gets reworked such that shields count towards the effect.

[Sqwall]

Dark knight is the only tank that relies on a healer to use it's invulnerability, so as yoshi-p like to keep identity, my suggestion is instead of losing hp when activated it will instead gain hp equal to the damage taken

I don't know about this.

Holmgang prevents WAR from falling below 0. I can sit at 1 HP for 8 seconds preventing me from dieing. Equilibrium or Nascent don't come close to getting me out of the danger zone raising from 1 HP. I have 190k unbuffed HP on my WAR, with the both for mentioned I would maybe get around 80k HP if my healing skills don't proc. Thrill of battle can push that up a little. Holmgang is a strange one though as I only used it if my warrior is critical. Like 10k HP. Last ditch effort to stay alive until I wait for a benediction or essential. Auri Doomstead is great example if I'm sitting at 1/2 HP I know that it's going to wipe me out. Holmgang prevents my death and if i'm not quick on the shirk or OT is slow on the Voke...i'm prolly going to die. Healer is definitely needed.

Superbolide is sort of the same but I use it whenever I want. You still need heals to get you back up. Healer needed and as a healer you need to pay attention closely when healing through multiple tank busters when tank decides to invuln.

Now Living Dead works fine, it's just wonky in timing I find, and getting used to it can be difficult. Which I think is the DRK class in a nutshell in how you use your dark arts, blackest night, and MP management in that it's all timing. Having said that Living dead is actually a VERY powerful Holmgang. The only caveat is once you fall below 0 your now walking dead. Then you need a bene, excog, essential.

I look at it this way.

10 seconds of living dead. 10 whole seconds of "insurance" that if I fall below 0 HP i'm good.

Now if I fall below 0 now my insurance company needs to help me out.

Walking dead is that policy with 10 MORE seconds of no damage, but the company requires the "premium" is payed...by being fully healed which is easy if your taking 0 damage.

That's 20 seconds of "It's ok if I die...I have insurance....just hope I pay the premium".

I have healed this many times with most DRK's and the one time it made sense to me is when the tank used it when they knew they were in trouble. Like around 20K HP, and they were right. The only difference was it didn't kill them, and that was the Invuln doing exactly what it was supposed to do. 10 secs of i'm immortal...it's ok if I die. As a healer I had to prevent them from dyeing.

Now if they did die it was due to my poor healing and then I have to bring them back within 10 seconds. That's easy with essential x2, celestial intersection, aspected benefic, lightspeed, Benefic 2. Maybe 8 seconds? guessing.

I find it fine...others would disagree. Like PLD mains. Hallowed Ground is pretty gold standard invuln.

[Sqwall]

From a healer PoV, even if you have a WHM in the group it doesn't make Living Dead great. Benediction is not just a rare emergency button, it's an extremely potent oGCD and great to weave in on a tank who is low or a dps who got hit by a mechanic to save heal GCD's. When your tank is a DRK and assigned to immune a tankbuster, you lose free access to that part of your toolkit. Other tanks don't have to be healed to full, you can throw a lily and a tetra on them or let the AST ED and any HoT's up or passive raid heals can handle the rest.

Holm is almost too good now. In some fights, having a WAR lets you immune more busters than a non-WAR comp. That's a huge advantage and makes healing so much easier, especially with an AST and because the tank can move the mitigation elsewhere. I'm surprised LD doesn't have the shorter CD so DRK could at least have filled that niche of an extra buster immune instead. But tbh immunes in general probably need looking at.

Holm is just as bad to heal from a healer perspective as superbolide. The WAR has an advantage with it's crazy healing skills. Thril + Equal + Nascent is around 150k ish. Healer won't need to bene. I run AST so one essential is really all I need to top them off. The rest I can Lightspeed Benenfic 2. Celestial intersection is REALLY good for low HP tanks, and gives me time to heal them up.

Living Dead in my opinion is ALL on the DRK when it comes to timing. If they do in fact die, then it's up to me as a healer to get them back up. When I have a DRK in the group I make it a point to watch for Living Dead. Lightspeed is a perfect skill for DRK's popping Living Dead. Just stop them from dieing and it's all good, and if they do die? I have 10 seconds of the DRK taking no damage until I can raise them to full HP. AST has no problem fully healing form 0 as I can do this with GNB, and WAR. Because 1 is only 1 more then 0. I don't see the issue bringing a GNB back from 1 to full health vs. brining a DRK back from 1 to full health.

If anything...they just lower the percentage of health required from 100% to 75%. Fixed.

[Lyth]

Much of what you've said isn't right. Holmgang and Living Dead prevent your HP from going below 1, not 0. Living Dead does not give you a whole 10 seconds. When the clock strikes 0, you die. If you cleanse early, the invuln ends early. Holmgang and Superbolide won't kill you when they expire, so if there's no outgoing damage at that point due to a cast or phase transition, you can just as easily sit at 1 HP if you like. The '20 seconds' claim is a common statement, but is false. The only portion of Living Dead that provides any mitigation is when Walking Dead activates. All that the previous 10 seconds does is help you shave some time off the recast if you activate it early.

Also, regarding the healer required comment - DRK is the only tank which has to rely on Lost Manawall to complete the Aces High duel. With all other invulns a healer may be situationally necessary, but for DRK it is absolutely mandatory, regardless of circumstance.

[WhyAmIHere]

"It's fine, every tank has to have something it's bad at, as much as it's got stuff it's good at!"