Living dead must change

[DaulBan]

This is an exceptionally bad idea. It's difficult to determine if you genuinely aren't aware of how powerful invulns are

I'm not talking about the game as it is now, I was speaking in the limited sense of if the game was designed that way. Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively) given that while the former has HG the latter has better tools to handle everything else that happens within seven minutes. If and only If there's actually enough outgoing damage going out that the difference in mitigation would be noticeable (like Godka or something like that). Given that right now most invulns exist strictly as convenience tools, and most healers have tools to spare, I sorta doubt that it would be that big of a deal even if healer design remained the exact same.

[WhyAmIHere]

I'm not talking about the game as it is now, I was speaking in the limited sense of if the game was designed that way. Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively) given that while the former has HG the latter has better tools to handle everything else that happens within seven minutes. If and only If there's actually enough outgoing damage going out that the difference in mitigation would be noticeable (like Godka or something like that). Given that right now most invulns exist strictly as convenience tools, and most healers have tools to spare, I sorta doubt that it would be that big of a deal even if healer design remained the exact same.

...except HW PLD couldn't block magic, and ShB DRK has had much taken away from its kit, where if the inverse were to be true HW DRK would have the complexity and resource management myself and others want, and ShB PLD has all the kinks in it's kit ironed out save for the botched nerf that is ShB Cover.

Besides from your own merit... PLD/GNB do have true invulnerabilties, whereas WAR/DRK have death immunities. Like, that's literally how their "invulns" operate.

[DaulBan]

...except HW PLD couldn't block magic, and ShB DRK has had much taken away from its kit, where if the inverse were to be true HW DRK would have the complexity and resource management myself and others want, and ShB PLD has all the kinks in it's kit ironed out save for the botched nerf that is ShB Cover.

Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively)

I'm not talking about anything regarding the rest of class balance. I'm just talking about defensive suite.

Edit: and to be clear: I did not say in my post anywhere that they SHOULD make invulns exclusive to any subset of jobs. I said it *could* be interesting if it *did* work, not that they *should* because it *would* .

[Vyrerus]

I remember back in 2.0 when PLD had all of the mitigation and the invuln and a DPS stance and WAR had... Featherfoot. If we were to take an invuln/immunity from even one tank, then we'd need to take them from everything.

[ItMe]

I remember back in 2.0 when PLD had all of the mitigation and the invuln and a DPS stance and WAR had... Featherfoot. If we were to take an invuln/immunity from even one tank, then we'd need to take them from everything.

Yeah, but that was back in 2.0 where you could use skills from classes on each other. PLD wasn't the class that had those tools, it was the class that unlocked those tools.

[Lyth]

Nothing like cross-class Savage Blade.

I want to see a limitation placed on the total number of times your team can use invulns per fight, shared across both tanks. Similar shared limits could be placed on rezzes, Monster Hunter style. You could fairly easily scale the difficulty of content up or down by adjusting these limits (i.e. no limits in story mode, fewer casts in harder difficulty settings).

If you had that, you wouldn't need to make up any convoluted drawbacks on invulns to keep them in check.

Edit: I was only *kind of* merely *suggesting*, hypothetically, as a thought experiment, that we *could* make PLD mandatory, I doubt it would be that big of a deal, and to be clear

Additional Effect: Backpedal 25 yalms.

[DaulBan]

Additional Effect: Backpedal 25 yalms.

I agree that removing Invulns probably isn't a bad idea.

That said, I think it could be used reasonably to distinguish different tanks. Like if GBR and PLD had them, while DRK and WAR didn't (excepting current tank balance) that might be reasonable if the former have weaker on-demand mitigation and the latter has much better on-demand mitigation. If your argument is that DRK has the best personal shield and WAR has the best personal healing, whereas PLD or GBR didn't (for whatever reason) it can be sensible.

I dunno man, you're the one putting words in my mouth when you didn't even read what I wrote.

[WhyAmIHere]

I dunno man, you're the one putting words in my mouth when you didn't even read what I wrote.

Or, you said one thing, meant another, and aren't admitting fault when called out for it?
because as written you kinda described the situation at hand we have now. WAR/DRK have immunities, and stronger short-cast defensives, while PLD/GNB have invulnerabilities, and weaker short-cast defensives.

The problem is DRK *does* have the best personal shielding. WAR *does* have the best personal healing. PLD *does* have the strongest invuln. GNB *does* have awful self-healing via Aurora, and IMO Brutal Shell's heal is garbage.

[Lyth]

You could have seen this one coming a malm away. Any time someone hits the key, they backpedal right off the edge of the thread. It's always embarrassing when it happens, but it's tradition which dates back to ARR.

Speaking of traditions, AngryDaul's rotation could use a bit of an update. The optimal HQ rotation should be:

,But I'd say that their latest post relies too much on low quality . Don't let yourself become Gulleye-ble. (I mean, come on, referencing the GNB sounds fiasco? Everyone knows that RPR is getting the old GNB sounds.)

And with that, this thread has come full circle. Beautiful.

If we were to take an invuln/immunity from even one tank, then we'd need to take them from everything.

I think this really gets to the heart of the matter. Either invulns are universally something accessible on every tank and are buttons that you want to press, or they should have drawbacks and restrictions placed on every tank.

The problem with Living Dead is that, while it's there, nobody really wants to you to press it. It's a feels bad button.

[AC9Breaker]

You could have seen this one coming a malm away. Any time someone hits the key, they backpedal right off the edge of the thread. It's always embarrassing when it happens, but it's tradition which dates back to ARR.

Speaking of traditions, AngryDaul's rotation could use a bit of an update. The optimal HQ rotation should be:

,But I'd say that their latest post relies too much on low quality . Don't let yourself become Gulleye-ble. (I mean, come on, referencing the GNB sounds fiasco? Everyone knows that RPR is getting the old GNB sounds.)

And with that, this thread has come full circle. Beautiful.

I think this really gets to the heart of the matter. Either invulns are universally something accessible on every tank and are buttons that you want to press, or they should have drawbacks and restrictions placed on every tank.

The problem with Living Dead is that, while it's there, nobody really wants to you to press it. It's a feels bad button.

lmao I wish I could like this post more then once.