Pronouns???

[HollyJollyPaca]

this tbh, I'd like to hear an explanation regarding this

I've explained it before but presentation is so key to people. Some people want to transition and adhere to societal presentation of their gender. Others aren't worried about that and are comfortable with looking more traditionally "femme" or "masc". It's why you see terms like Trans Femme and others. Honestly it's not just a trans thing but an everybody thing which is why I think pronouns would be a great option. We all present ourselves differently! Some women are more masculine, some guys are more femme, and yet they still identify as Cis. It's just one big spectrum so who needs societal gender norms~

Edit to add examples cause I'm always afraid I'm not coming across correctly BUT, I have trans friends who present themselves as more masculine, who want beards and more chiseled looks. And then I have trans friends (like the one I mentioned) who don't want to look that way and want to have the softer features. They still use he/him pronouns but that traditional male appearance isn't something they aim for, just certain anatomy and pronoun usage. C:

[squidmonarchy]

this tbh, I'd like to hear an explanation regarding this

The OP addressed this, but I'll try to help too.

Being trans is not always a binary state. Trans women are women, of course, and in my experience generally prefer to be addressed as women. But there are trans people who don't fall smoothly into the gender binary. (This can also apply to people who are intersex, or cis but not "gender conforming". Gender is complicated.)

Even with a trans woman though, things might be a little more complicated. Not every trans woman passes for a cis woman, and the trans woman may wish to create a character who looks more like she does, while still having the NPCs and cut scenes address the character as female.

[TarynH]

When taught in school that they are plural use, and having used them that way for 30 odd years, it is not easy for many to adjust.

I still remember talking to a dispatcher once, trying to explain that one person committed a crime. And every time I said "they," the dispatcher would stop me and ask if it was more than one person. We went through this exercise four times. Me explaining it was one person, and saying "Then they took off down the street." And the dispatcher responding "They? Was it more than one person?"

[SannaR]

Don't worry you're good!! But presentation is a big part of being transgender/gender fluid. So in my friend's case, they're trans BUT they're still quite fem in terms of physical appearance. So they wanted to have that in their character. But they couldn't get exactly what they looked for unless they had a lady Lala's face. They got the presentation they wanted from the female physical model but it didn't satisfy them gender wise. Another example could be somebody wanting to play an Au Ra and wanting to play as a girl but...well, we know how the sexual dimorphism is there haha!

Ahh I see. That still seems a bit odd though. I just don't remember a male lalafell face type along with hair that couldn't be made to look feminine. I mean heck when I first met Pippin I thought they were a female. I guess it would have to come down with how flexible said friend is when it comes to initial appearances. I think only male Roe and Hrothgar would be no goes as even with their more youthful face choices it would be hard to make them look more feminine. They might have to get their hands on some of the more feminine hairstyles, but I'm sure it could be done as only npcs would know their gender if they chose Lalafell. Since most players just going by looks wouldn't know if they were a guy or not as unless they were in swim wear, topless, wearing some gear that looked different based on gender none would know.

[TarynH]

I think when it came to the creation, it was the face options? I'm not exactly sure but that's what I assume. That and I think Lala was their last resort cause they couldn't get that female presentation in other races without actually being female (the other races def aren't as ambiguous face wise)

Then perhaps instead of having the option of picking pronouns, maybe more ambiguous character creation options? I'm all for having more character creation options. (sans bulge/butt sliders)

I'm still confused though. If I was wanting to present as female, I'd want to be referred to as such. But Lalafells are the only race you can blur the lines. While male Miqo'te are a good race to play around with softer, more feminine traits.

[Iscah]

I still remember talking to a dispatcher once, trying to explain that one person committed a crime. And every time I said "they," the dispatcher would stop me and ask if it was more than one person. We went through this exercise four times. Me explaining it was one person, and saying "Then they took off down the street." And the dispatcher responding "They? Was it more than one person?"

Honestly that's being over-picky in any case. Someone can easily use "they" to refer to a single person they (as it were) didn't see very well or couldn't recognise the gender at a glance.

[TarynH]

Honestly that's being over-picky in any case. Someone can easily use "they" to refer to a single person they (as it were) didn't see very well or couldn't recognise the gender at a glance.

Oh, it was extremely over-picky, and was starting to annoy me during the call. lol It just goes to show that pronouns can be very confusing to some people. Expecting everyone to conform to using them/they immediately, shows lack of patience and understanding. That's not to say some people purposefully misgender others, but most of the time it's simple confusion with language, or teething issues.

[Theodric]

I'd rather not see it happen, especially this late in the game's development. The sheer amount of text and voice acting that would need to be adjusted to account for such a thing would be a very expensive undertaking - and it would feel very strange and immersion breaking if every NPC - even one's enemies - began referring to every player character as their preferred pronoun even if they had not yet met the individual in question.

As a gay guy, I don't need a character that I play in a game to be gay or even male in order to identify or sympathise with them. I think if people try really hard, they might be able play a character that isn't an exact replica of themselves too. In my opinion someone doesn't need to be a woman to play as Lara Croft in the Tomb Raider games nor do they need to be a man to play as Noctis in Final Fantasy XV. As such, I think the current system in FFXIV is fine.

[Commander_Justitia]

lmao no, ff14 stays a fantasy game, doesn't need rl political debates

man I'm glad its from JP and not from a Last of Us 2 dev team

[Bright-Flower]

lmao no, ff14 stays a fantasy game, doesn't need rl political debates

man I'm glad its from JP and not from a Last of Us 2 dev team

How would this be a debate? The option would only affect how you see npcs addressing your character. Other people wouldn't even have to see it.

I think it's too late to add this to FFXIV but I'd have zero problem with it being an option in future games for people that want it. It wouldn't be a big deal for a game that takes it into account from the start, it's only a problem going back and trying to add it after the fact that would be an issue.