Pronouns???

[Wilford111]

Please explain to me how giving someone the option to have a different pronoun in the story is corrupting your experience. If you don't want your character to be referred to as "they" then simply don't select it. The story is a solo experience.

This is a fair question, and it's one I did spend a good amount of time thinking about. It really isn't an easy question to answer, especially since the immediate reaction from some people is "well you're just a bigot" if you're not okay with it. I do think it's an important question to answer, as brushing it off will do nothing for progress. However little it might be.

I think it is largely a matter of perspective whether or not you get upset if someone misgenders you. People have misgendered me in-game before, and I imagine this happens a lot in general. Especially if a player intentionally chooses a gender that isn't their own. I don't get upset if someone misgenders me, in fact, I think of it as sort of a psudo-compliment.

Let's think about the psychology of misgendering. If someone refers to you as "she", that's due to their own perspective of who/what you are, based on whatever limited knowledge they have, and not out of intent to how you will feel about it. However you take it depends largely on your own perception. What is the big deal with someone calling you "she", whether it's accurate or not? Is there a problem with being female? Is there a problem with being male? Why? Why would you feel hurt instead of feeling complimented? Why feel strongly about it at all?

We're not even talking about misgendering in real life though. We're talking about misgendering in a game, where you have free reign to choose what your gender is, among a host of other features. Then, to take it a step further, we're not even talking about a human misgendering you. We're talking about a computer program. Is it the program's fault that it called you "she" when your pronouns are "he/him/they"?

Now, you might say, you know it isn't anyone's fault that you felt hurt or offended. That is just your natural response whenever you get misgendered. Fair enough. Then in that case, I would say it is up to you to improve yourself, so that you can rise above feeling offended when there is no offense given or intended. You have the power to feel how you want to feel. That is personal strength and responsibility. That you might still feel offended, but you understand that it is a personal thing and you shouldn't expect the world to change just because you have a personal issue. Everyone has personal issues that they work through everyday.

But there are those who aren't so understanding. There are those who expect everyone else to change themselves around them just so they can feel better. They don't accept compromises and will act unpleasantly until they get their way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone who is like this is a coddled spoiled brat. Everyone is different. What I'm saying is that there is a spectrum, and those that support this feature implementation are in favor of those higher on that spectrum to always get what they want.

Look, at the end of the day, this is just another part of the political culture war. You might say that "people's identities aren't political! They're human rights!" Yeah I've heard that one before. See above for the rebuttal to that statement.

Would this feature ruin the game for me? Absolutely not. But it is a small step in making this game more enjoyable for a certain group of people, and less enjoyable for another. I'm on the latter side, and I will do what I can to make this game more enjoyable. Not just for me, but for the majority.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[TroySoFab]

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

And you didn't actually answer the question. This thread is not about accidental or even intentional misgendering people in public/ingame conversations. So lets not derail into that. The topic at hand is allowing characters to pick their gender in STORY content, and possibly adding a "they/them option" to STORY dialogue. If you do not want any exposure to your character being called "they", that's fine. Don't select the option. Adding such a feature takes nothing away from you, because you can completely and totally avoid it, with no extra effort put forward on your part.

[Kolsykol]

And you didn't actually answer the question. This thread is not about accidental or even intentional misgendering people in public/ingame conversations. So lets not derail into that. The topic at hand is allowing characters to pick their gender in STORY content, and possibly adding a "they/them option" to STORY dialogue. If you do not want any exposure to your character being called "they", that's fine. Don't select the option. Adding such a feature takes nothing away from you, because you can completely and totally avoid it, with no extra effort put forward on your part.

I am just curious here, but are you talking about people like the Scions referring to you as '' they ''?

Because I am just wondering how random NPC's would even know about your pronoun.
It's not like people irl can read minds either and know about that, most people will just assume based on appearance.

[Andy_T93]

Look, at the end of the day, this is just another part of the political culture war. You might say that "people's identities aren't political! They're human rights!" Yeah I've heard that one before. See above for the rebuttal to that statement.

Would this feature ruin the game for me? Absolutely not. But it is a small step in making this game more enjoyable for a certain group of people, and less enjoyable for another. I'm on the latter side, and I will do what I can to make this game more enjoyable. Not just for me, but for the majority.

I genuinely do not know where to start with this. On one hand I suppose at least you offered an explanation and believe what you are saying on the other hand the fact that you seem to think what you are saying is reasonable is seriously worrying. Feels like you are completely incapable of empathy for others.

You are looking at this from the view point of people either being offended/or not offended and yes I agree entirely that ultimately people are in control of what they personally find offensive and certainly it would be insane to be offended by a computer programme as there is obviously no intention or malice from it.

However instead of viewing it as just being and offensive/inoffensive thing. Think of the good it could do instead from an inclusivity point of view. Imagine you are a kid 13/14 years old struggling with your gender identity, you feel like no-one understands, you don't have anyone to talk to about it and you log into a game and the game asks you how you would like to be addressed. Suddenly that kid doesn't feel quite so alone, doesn't feel quite so wrong to feel the way that they do and that can only be a good thing I hope you at least agree with that.

Throughout our history it is the media around us with helps to normalise things. 65 years ago you wouldn't see black and white people on TV together but media such as TV, films and music normalised it. 10/15 years ago you would never see a gay character in a video game but again it has become much more normalised. All media has a responsibility to push for inclusion and video games are no exception of this.

To touch on a few of your final points and to make something clear, Gender Identity is NOT political just because it is discussed in political circles. Politics is an external societal construct the way someone feels about their gender is internal, it can't be changed anymore than a black person can change their skin colour or a gay person can change their sexual orientation.

Lastly you mentioned that this change would be a small step in making the game less enjoyable for others. Could you maybe explain how and why you feel this would have a negative impact on anyone?

Thanks