Pronouns???

[Awha]

I have someone on our R&D team that appears to change their preferred pronouns fairly regularly. Think they are gender fuild, it is fairly annoying cause they have gone to HR a few times since when we use neutral terms like they / them when they do not like those markers we have been told it creates an hostile and unwelcoming work environment.

So personally I can see why SE would want to go down that potential rabbit hole where they are trying to appease everyone.

[Gula]

This isn't your twitter bio no thanks.

[juicybug]

This is a fantasy world. The idea of Trans LGBTQABCDEFG+-= may not exist in the world of FFXIV. Real world elements don't have to exist in every written setting. I don't think they need to pull every line of dialogue where the WoL is referenced as Sir, Mr., Lass, Madam, Miss/Ms., My lady/lordship etc. as the translation might be off or nonexistent in other languages, also it seems like a huge waste of resources. Maybe something in future dialogues allowing the use of the word "Ser" rather than sir/miss, since it's refers to a person in instances where the gender is not known or not important, it's just a respective title given to those of non noble birth and obtain a "knight" like rank. It could be better in that case of avoiding first world problems like forcing labels. The real problem with this game is the lackluster character creation options. I should be able to wear lipstick, eyeshadow, blush, and a face stamp/tattoo all at once and not pick one over the other- also needs better hairstyles no more solo bang, spiky cloud-like hairstyles or mullets. The other issue I have is the fact that Viera and Hrothgar likely will not be getting any visual additions like new hairstyles or faces in more years to come but yay, male viera who also can't wear hats and will not get any new hairs.

[Theodric]

Unfortunately people get bullied for all sorts of different reasons. Some people are bullied for being too short, others for being too tall. Some get bullied for wearing glasses, others get bullied for being quiet and so on and so forth. I don't think people should feel as if their experiences are more or less important than anybody else's in that regard. I've got a scar from a knife wound from a violent mugging, for example, though I worked through my trauma and I'd never once imply that other people's own experiences are better or worse than my own.

As a gay guy, I also strive for equality which means that, in my opinion, I should be treated as just another normal person rather than a delicate flower that needs to be catered to and protected at every cost. Indeed, the only times I have ever encountered homophobia in my life is whenever I've shot down attempts by 'concerned parties' to exploit me as a means of virtue signaling...but that's a debate best suited to elsewhere, I suppose.

Each to their own, though, I suppose.

[StriderShinryu]

I don't have any issues at all with introducing a pronoun selection. Unfortunately, as many others have stated, it would probably take a lot of work in the coding end to make it work.

[Juzjuzz]

...

I never said it's your fault if other kids started to bully you. I just think it's was possible to not even get hurt from the start and i'm not saying it's easy. Even if other kids started and did bad things to you, understanding that you could have done a better job defending yourself is a step in the right direction (for you 1rst and maybe other ppl). Not putting too much importance to some words is a good way to not get hurt imo (just like you use a knife with caution).

Yes you can love to do wtf you want, i loved to play barbies as a kid and i am a straight man (played female miqo when i started the game, tried female roe too lol), but it has nothing to do with pronouns. It's not here to say "i am feminine/masculine/gay/straight/like girls things/like boy things/(insert wtf you want there)". It's just here to show witch gender you are born with and this has nothing to with how you feel.

Your don't have to justify anything and never had to. You didn't have a choice in the pronoun you got, other ppl as well. You don't have to justify liking something or how you behave. As long as you don't force others into anything, no one should care. And other don't have to force you into anything. That's why i say pronouns are not there for feelings.

I wouldnt be surprised same ppl who bullied you where using pronouns for feelings as well.

Pronouns are not the same thing as a name. The two are linked (because the name you get can be linked to your gender), but it's two different things. Parents choose the name of their children, not their gender. Children don't choose their names. But pronouns are not here to feel like a name, names are here for that. Using pronouns and names in the same manner is a bad idea.
Your name is not here for show what you should be and not "i see myself as". In the most basic level, it's only here to make communications easier (and i prefer using names like that, it's way less confusing lol).

I understand that's a painful experience but it doesn't change my mind, in fact i'm even more convinced that gender choice is not a good thing. I think gender choice guives more pain, it looks nice and gentle but it's really not imo.
It's just saying "you are a man if you think and act like a man"/"you are a woman if you think and act like a woman"/"you are inbetween if you think and act like a man and a woman". That's BS, just cliches all over the place. Only ppl who fit in will feel good.

No one has to fit in anything.

Pls don't take it badly, i just what i think about this subject. I'm not trying to hurt you, just saying what i truly think.

[Ammokkx]

I never said it's your fault if other kids started to bully you. I just think it's was possible to not even get hurt from the start and i'm not saying it's easy. Even if other kids started and did bad things to you, understanding that you could have done a better job defending yourself is a step in the right direction (for you 1rst and maybe other ppl). Not putting too much importance to some words is a good way to not get hurt imo (just like you use a knife with caution).

literal victim blaming, my dude.

Shouldn't have had to protect themselves to begin with. They shouldn't even need to take those steps. The fact they need to is a problem in and of itself.

[Juzjuzz]

literal victim blaming, my dude.

Shouldn't have had to protect themselves to begin with. They shouldn't even need to take those steps. The fact they need to is a problem in and of itself.

Yes exactly. But you have to, learning how defend yourself is a good tool. I'm not saying other ppl are innocent (far from it), but you can't count on other to bring you hapiness all the time. Not everyone is nice sadly.

Id like to clear up a little bit of a misconception it seems youre having. Im not a man because I think or act like a man - in fact, I also played with barbies growing up. I loved dress up games, dressing up “like a girl”, putting on my step moms makeup, walking around in high heels. To this day, I love dresses, shoes, all things pink and considered “girly.” But I still grew up calling myself a boy when others called me a girl, because that was what my brain said (not what I THOUGHT, but what my brain was signalling to my body). The dressing up? That felt like a costume to me. It was, well, playing dress up. And it felt the same way when I went to school and everyone called me “she” and said I was a girl because I looked like a girl on the outside.

Just like you playing with barbie dolls didnt make you grow up to be less of a man, neither did it make me. The only thing that it did was make others think of me as more feminine than I felt.

Transgender isnt changing to conform to societies expectations of what a man, or a woman, or a nonbinary person is. It’s fixing the mismatch from your OWN brain to your body. For some people, that IS conforming to societal expectations - dressing overly masculine and acting with bravado, puffing their chest out and screaming about trucks etc. For others its making small changes to how the people closest to them address them and interact with them. Take people like Blaire White, she fully transitioned sans bottom surgery. She feels comfortable without bottom surgery, because she reached a point where her brain wasnt screaming at her that her body wasn’t correct. It is DEFINITELY not societies expectation for a woman to have male genitals. But its as far as she needed to go to correct the mismatch.

I dont even like Blaire (I think she’s a grifting POS who panders to right wing idiots who cant be bothered to do a modicum of research before spouting off their insane ideas) but shes a perfect example of what I mean.

I have nothing against ppl changing their bodies tbh, it's just the pronoun thing that bugs me. I can't accept it. To me it's not here to be used for confort. Even if they don't like it, they don't have to. Societal expectations are not even here to make ppl feel good and it's useless sometimes. Who cares about what you do with your body, as long as you don't hurt anyone else ?
And to me your pronoun doesnt change if you change your body into something else (tbh i wont call you "she" if you are born as man, because i don't think calling you "she" just for being gentle is a good thing). You are born a man or a woman (unless you are intersex but then idk how it works for them), after that do wtf you want but don't bring me into it.
I just have a different approach about all this, it's a really a complex subject xD.

[Penthea]

I never said it's your fault if other kids started to bully you. I just think it's was possible to not even get hurt from the start and i'm not saying it's easy. Even if other kids started and did bad things to you, understanding that you could have done a better job defending yourself is a step in the right direction (for you 1rst and maybe other ppl). Not putting too much importance to some words is a good way to not get hurt imo (just like you use a knife with caution).

How do you know I could have avoided getting hurt? You don't know me, you don't know who was involved, you don't know where it happened and you were only given very vague details about what happened. Stop acting like you're some sort of an expert on a past event, 90% of which you don't know about, that you didn't even experience.

You know what's wrong with you? My story contradicts your agenda and you don't like it. You have this idea in your head that pronoun use can only hurt you if you allow it.

This wasn't a "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" situation. I wish it was just name calling, but it wasn't only that and I'm not going to go into deep detail because it's futile. I don't think there's anything I can say to you to make you understand how difficult the situation was for me because for you to understand you would have to let go of the idea that pronouns can only hurt if you allow it. So instead you choose to say I failed myself by not being strong enough to keep yourself elevated. You are essentially telling a seven year old that it is partially her fault for getting upset when some boys followed her around to bully her just because she wasn't their idea of what a girl or a boy should be. You are saying it's a child's fault for feeling hurt when someone else was repeatedly doing things with the intention of causing pain.

literal victim blaming, my dude.

Exactly this.

Pls don't take it badly, i just what i think about this subject. I'm not trying to hurt you, just saying what i truly think.

Lol I'm not supposed to take it badly when you try to say seven year old me was too weak for getting upset when a group of people bullied her by making her feel that her gender identity was fundamentally flawed? When all I did was use both boy and girl toys to entertain myself?

Your words don't hurt me now because I know exactly how ridiculous you're being. But seven year old me would have been very upset to be told it's partially my fault for feeling hurt when I all I did to invite that behaviour was play with "mismatching" toys. And before you even try to say "it's your fault for making it clear that it hurt you" no one enjoys being surrounded by a large group of bullies having fun by making sure they feel wrong and unwelcome. I didn't even cry for the first few incidents but whatever facial expression I had made it obvious that I was not happy, and they took joy in that.

And I'm going to end this conversation with you here because you are frankly a complete waste of my time. Respond if you want to but I'm not going to see it. I'd rather clean my cat's litter box than engage in conversation with you. Have a good day.

[MilkieTea]

I understand that's a painful experience but it doesn't change my mind, in fact i'm even more convinced that gender choice is not a good thing. I think gender choice guives more pain, it looks nice and gentle but it's really not imo.
It's just saying "you are a man if you think and act like a man"/"you are a woman if you think and act like a woman"/"you are inbetween when think and act like a man and a woman". That's BS, just cliches all over the place. Only ppl who fit in will feel good.

No one has to fit in anything.

Id like to clear up a little bit of a misconception it seems youre having. Im not a man because I think or act like a man - in fact, I also played with barbies growing up. I loved dress up games, dressing up “like a girl”, putting on my step moms makeup, walking around in high heels. To this day, I love dresses, shoes, all things pink and considered “girly.” But I still grew up calling myself a boy when others called me a girl, because that was what my brain said (not what I THOUGHT, but what my brain was signalling to my body). The dressing up? That felt like a costume to me. It was, well, playing dress up. And it felt the same way when I went to school and everyone called me “she” and said I was a girl because I looked like a girl on the outside.

Just like you playing with barbie dolls didnt make you grow up to be less of a man, neither did it make me. The only thing that it did was make others think of me as more feminine than I felt.

Transgender isnt changing to conform to societies expectations of what a man, or a woman, or a nonbinary person is. It’s fixing the mismatch from your OWN brain to your body. For some people, that IS conforming to societal expectations - dressing overly masculine and acting with bravado, puffing their chest out and screaming about trucks etc. For others its making small changes to how the people closest to them address them and interact with them. Take people like Blaire White, she fully transitioned sans bottom surgery. She feels comfortable without bottom surgery, because she reached a point where her brain wasnt screaming at her that her body wasn’t correct. It is DEFINITELY not societies expectation for a woman to have male genitals. But its as far as she needed to go to correct the mismatch.

I dont even like Blaire (I think she’s a grifting POS who panders to right wing idiots who cant be bothered to do a modicum of research before spouting off their insane ideas) but shes a perfect example of what I mean.