Pronouns???

[Theodric]

If there's a particular thread I have no interest in, I simply do not post in it or read it.

It's only a few hours until the Fan Fest, at any rate - at which point the forum will shift to discussing that.

[Theodric]

As has been pointed out by many posters, it isn't really a simple suggestion at all - it'd require a lot of resources to implement effectively. Furthermore, whenever businesses have sought to make things more 'accessible' there's inevitably demands for even more inclusivity. Instagram, for example, recently allowed people to pick from one of 41 different pronouns. It wasn't enough and Instagram was quickly accused of 'not being inclusive enough'.

I think that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, as I see it. I may be gay, for example, but that doesn't mean I need a gay character to be present in every game that I play. Even ones where I can create my own character.

[Katie_Kitty]

As has been pointed out by many posters, it isn't really a simple suggestion at all - it'd require a lot of resources to implement effectively. Furthermore, whenever businesses have sought to make things more 'accessible' there's inevitably demands for even more inclusivity. Instagram, for example, recently allowed people to pick from one of 41 different pronouns. It wasn't enough and Instagram was quickly accused of 'not being inclusive enough'.

I think that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, as I see it. I may be gay, for example, but that doesn't mean I need a gay character to be present in every game that I play. Even ones where I can create my own character.

There's nothing more important when it comes to character creation in an MMO than identity. I don't see any problem allowing players to select their preferred pronouns, and it should not be prohibitively difficult to create something like this in the code. Even microsoft word is capable of finding pronouns in a document and replacing them with something else if desired.

[Theodric]

There's nothing more important when it comes to character creation in an MMO than identity. I don't see any problem allowing players to select their preferred pronouns, and it should not be prohibitively difficult to create something like this in the code. Even wordpad is capable of finding pronouns in a document and replacing them with something else if desired.

You're free to believe that. I disagree, though.

I don't see my character as an extension of myself, really. What similarities exist are entirely coincidental.

I think it'd be a good thing if more people distanced themselves from their character, anyway - especially since there's no shortage of individuals who get incredibly offended if an NPC offers anything other than praise and adoration to their precious self insert.

[Lauront]

There's nothing more important when it comes to character creation in an MMO than identity. I don't see any problem allowing players to select their preferred pronouns, and it should not be prohibitively difficult to create something like this in the code. Even microsoft word is capable of finding pronouns in a document and replacing them with something else if desired.

If it's to do with the player, it can go in search info - if it's to do with the character, it should fit the setting. Barring a few rare situations like Fae, it's not something even remotely of the radar of in-world characters, and it'd feel forced if it were. And that is besides the effort it'd take to implement it. If the game starts incorporating such blatantly ideological nonsense into it, it'll be a good sign it's time to say bye bye.

[Krotoan]

it should not be prohibitively difficult to create something like this in the code. Even microsoft word is capable of finding pronouns in a document and replacing them with something else if desired.

This isn't a case of "find word, replace with preferred term". Some languages use "gendered" language. Many dialogues depend on how your character "presents". Entire scripts would have to be rewritten, some of them impossibly so since the languages may simply have no gender neutral term.

Literal thousands of lines of text that need to be replaced and proofread. Even IF this is a matter of text replacement only and not adding a new fundamental system for tracking not only how characters in the world refer to you but what glamours you're allowed to wear, it's not a "small" or "easy" change.

[Penthea]

This isn't a case of "find word, replace with preferred term". Some languages use "gendered" language. Many dialogues depend on how your character "presents". Entire scripts would have to be rewritten, some of them impossibly so since the languages may simply have no gender neutral term.

Literal thousands of lines of text that need to be replaced and proofread. Even IF this is a matter of text replacement only and not adding a new fundamental system for tracking not only how characters in the world refer to you but what glamours you're allowed to wear, it's not a "small" or "easy" change.

This is why that while I support this sort of addition I don't think it's going to happen. I don't see SE introducing a feature that won't be equally effective to all players. I don't know about Japanese, but I know that French doesn't have gender neutral pronouns. In that language if you want to refer to someone whose gender you don't know or a group of mix gendered people you default to the male form. There is no "they" in french, just plural he and she.

[Shibi]

There's nothing more important when it comes to character creation in an MMO than identity. I don't see any problem allowing players to select their preferred pronouns, and it should not be prohibitively difficult to create something like this in the code. Even microsoft word is capable of finding pronouns in a document and replacing them with something else if desired.

Assume please you want they/them as your pronouns instead of he/him

"The young Doman looked up to you and said 'Hey Mister, you really showed him when you whooped his arse'" while the crowd cheered from the sidelines. "He was amazing" and "He really showed him what was up" filled your ears. You looked over to Alphinaud who says "You really are the master of battle, that was impressive. He didn't have a chance"

Now, with a word find/replace please convert that... don't use your grammar skills at all, just do it with find/replace.

Now - repeat that in French, German and Japanese as a minimum!

[Katie_Kitty]

Assume please you want they/them as your pronouns instead of he/him

"The young Doman looked up to you and said 'Hey Mister, you really showed him when you whooped his arse'" while the crowd cheered from the sidelines. "He was amazing" and "He really showed him what was up" filled your ears. You looked over to Alphinaud who says "You really are the master of battle, that was impressive. He didn't have a chance"

Now, with a word find/replace please convert that... don't use your grammar skills at all, just do it with find/replace.

Now - repeat that in French, German and Japanese as a minimum!

I can assure you that wouldn't be the most complicated or difficult undertaking FFXIV has ever seen.

[Shibi]

I can assure you that wouldn't be the most complicated or difficult undertaking FFXIV has ever seen.

Then you agree that it's not just a find/replace as my example should have made clear? That's it's not as simple as flipping a switch.

So, in English the localisation crew would be pulled off the next expansion to rework every single line of text in a very heavily story driven game. It would take a long time, a year or more to do the English, and while they do, no new content for anyone.

Then they also need the French localisation team to do it - and French is a gendered language, it's quicte hard for French people to choose their pronouns as people then don't know if to rewrite the entire rest of the sentance in a feminine or masculine way. *French is the largest obstacle for this

Even if you use 'iel' or 'ille' in French you must then choose between 'iel est content' or 'iel est contente'. You might choose iel (they/them) with feminine grammar, or you might choose iel with masculine grammar.

German and Japanese also pose their own problems.

I am all for allowing people to pick their pronouns and I respect those genuine choices, but this is a game with a lot of baggage, and the ability to slot it in passed 10 years ago.

It's not simple. It's not quick. It would cost a lot of money. It would pull all the localisation teams away from the new expansion for maybe a year, maybe even more as they put all effort into rewriting the entire game for the gender nuetral pronouns in languages that can't even do it effectively.