Pronouns???

[MilkieTea]

Binary code is entirely applicable, because we use it everyday to view many millions of things. Each value composed of the binary represents entirely different information with respect to what a computer shows us. It goes a similar way with sexual chromosomes, though actual biology is a lot messier.

You'll notice your sliding scale is still contained within a binary, as it has two poles. It is a binary scale. Everything on the scale is informed and described by its poles.

It's also labeled incorrectly. The intersex portion should touch the poles, as it is entirely possible to be M or F with an exact 46 XY or XX chromosome comp, but due to physical defect, develop as one or the other.

Until we get a mutation that causes an intersex person to develop with a brand new sex chromosome, we humans will be sexually binary.

Gender is entirely psychological, as it was invented in relation so sex to distinguish between what a person is physically, and what they feel/think that they are. It has no bearing on my point.

I drew that with my finger, just take it as a vague approximation.

On the rest of your post: sure, it exists within a binary, but it isnt a strict either or.

Also the gender comments are more for anyone else choosing to read through the thread. I find you to be someone who is typically level headed about this kind of stuff, which I appreciate.

[Vyrerus]

I drew that with my finger, just take it as a vague approximation.

On the rest of your post: sure, it exists within a binary, but it isnt a strict either or.

Also the gender comments are more for anyone else choosing to read through the thread. I find you to be someone who is typically level headed about this kind of stuff, which I appreciate.

It's better than I can draw with a pencil, heh. I've got pretty bad hands.

It exists within the binary, and that means that it's both but never neither.

Thanks for the compliment. I was actually feeling somewhat riled, honestly. I feel pretty strongly about this kind of stuff. I'm fine with people choosing their own descriptors, as it's something intersex people have to do naturally. I just draw the line at changing the definition of sex, which exists entirely for the physical world. At least, changing it without there first being an example of it actually changing, in this case, for humans.

[MilkieTea]

It's better than I can draw with a pencil, heh. I've got pretty bad hands.

It exists within the binary, and that means that it's both but never neither.

Thanks for the compliment. I was actually feeling somewhat riled, honestly. I feel pretty strongly about this kind of stuff. I'm fine with people choosing their own descriptors, as it's something intersex people have to do naturally. I just draw the line at changing the definition of sex, which exists entirely for the physical world. At least, changing it without there first being an example of it actually changing, in this case, for humans.

No problem. I kind of feel that we're both hitting a wall, because while we're not necessarily in full *disagreement* with each other (we're playing semantics at this point) we're also not going to come to a full agreement on what we do disagree upon. I'm going to end this here before it devolves into nitpicking, as I'm prone to do.

Have a great day, and I hope to see you elsewhere on the forums!

[Sotaris]

Cause I rather the devs not waste time on implementing a feature no one will see or use. Like you said, it will only be visible for the player, it doesn't add anything.

It would just be a "woke" list where they can check off a box. It's stupid if you ask me. We have to much of that in real life today with social media.

[MilkieTea]

Cause I rather the devs not waste time on implementing a feature no one will see or use. Like you said, it will only be visible for the player, it doesn't add anything.

It would just be a "woke" list where they can check off a box. It's stupid if you ask me. We have to much of that in real life today with social media.

(In a hypothetical where this doesn't take away from dev resources)

There, dev resources are not wasted. Now why are you against other players being referred to by their preferred pronoun in game?

[Haru304]

There, dev resources are not wasted. Now why are you against other players being referred to by their preferred pronoun in game?

It would in-fact, contrary to my opinion yesterday as I didn't touch on the technical aspects, be incredibly easy if the inclusion in this scenario was simply a matter of performing a switcheroo for he and she pronouns. That's not what a lot of people want, however. People want gender-neutral pronouns (which IMO to an extent violate my personal understanding of grammar in various scenarios and are confusing) and people want gender-neo pronouns. Would it not be wrong to leave those out? It wouldn't just require swapping some words out. It'll require restructuring entire sentences, to tailor to people's individual experiences of the story. Now, as you've pointed out, that's a pretty big technical issue to tackle.

In my personal experience of the game, people playing non-binary, gender non conforming, trans, etc characters have simply had their character model reflect that (and of course everyone has a different idea of masculine and feminine to an extent, I mean look at the thread OPs friend who could only get a lalafel to represent 'their' idea of what was and wasn't gender representative to them). It's not a hard thing to conceptualize in this type of universe. I find it odd that people jump to the 'pixies' of all things to shout 'this exists, this exists!', etc, you don't need to point out a mythical creature in a fantasy setting to justify the pronouns your character uses or your character's gender identity.

Something you said earlier was in regards to 'finding characters relatable', etc 'this is what this type of game is for', etc. Why does your character need to be perfectly representative of you in order for it to be relatable? I find myself asking this more and more as of late. I play this type of game to indulge in another character's story or experiences, and certain aspects of those may or may not be relatable, but that doesn't mean the character itself has to be one hundred percent representative of me. I don't have to be black, for example, to sympathize and feel a relation to the struggles of a black character, and likewise with gender. What's with this mentality that you can ONLY relate to people if they ARE you? It seems odd to me, as someone who doesn't particularly like being bound to labels and stereotypes.

Last but not least, I think this generally comes down to the player. Ultimately, you're in control of who and what your character is, as a creator, and no amount of in-game text can take that away from you.

[Lanadra]

Something you said earlier was in regards to 'finding characters relatable', etc 'this is what this type of game is for', etc. Why does your character need to be perfectly representative of you in order for it to be relatable? I find myself asking this more and more as of late. I play this type of game to indulge in another character's story or experiences, and certain aspects of those may or may not be relatable, but that doesn't mean the character itself has to be one hundred percent representative of me. I don't have to be black, for example, to sympathize and feel a relation to the struggles of a black character, and likewise with gender. What's with this mentality that you can ONLY relate to people if they ARE you? It seems odd to me, as someone who doesn't particularly like being bound to labels and stereotypes.

Completely agreed. Like, I'm a straight white male irl, as generic and cookie cutter as it gets. Yet I play a female Au Ra in this videogame and have no issues relating to her story and struggles. Because I accept that she does not represent me, my Au Ra, Alessia, is not me. She does not need to conform to what I am, nor do I subscribe to the idea of 'i am a straight white male irl, so my character has to be the same'.

I will for context and clarity quote my earlier post on this specific view:

Ultimately my view is this: You play a character in this setting, of a race and gender that abides by the rules of the setting. Disconnect from the character. Acknowledge that the character is not you and is not meant to represent who you are in real life. It is most definitely what I'd advise your friend to try to do. Now, in player interaction, that's an entirely different matter, you can request friends/acquaintances and if you wish attempt to ask even strangers to respect preferred pronouns. Obviously in interactions with other people it does matter more.

[Sotaris]

It isn't hypothetical. Dev resources would be required and imo wasted. It won't magically appear in the character creator.

[MilkieTea]

It isn't hypothetical. Dev resources would be required and imo wasted. It won't magically appear in the character creator.

In a hypothetical scenario where inputting this into the game WILL NOT remove dev resources. Let's say all they have to do is flip a switch in a HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

Why would you be against it in this HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

Well it's pretty useless to argue about a what If scenario don't you think.

This may be a highly controversial opinion in this time and age. I don't believe there is more than 2 genders and you are the gender you're born in. So - If I make a female character or male for that fact, they are a she and he.

Yeah, that's what I was fishing for.

Don't talk to me again please ^.~

You believe in the toothfairy too?

Cause they exist hypothetical! /s

This just in: local cat lady doesn't understand what hypotheticals are.

Anyways, I won't waste further time on people who can't be bothered to do a modicum of research. Have a nice day! ^.~

<Don't talk to me again please.

<Proceeds to keep editing their posts with more responses.

I said don't talk to me, not that I would stop talking to them. I'm pretty literal in that sense. See above edit in which I say I won't waste any more time.

Then don't post on a public forum if you cannot handle the ensuing responses. The internet does not revolve around you for your personal use. You post on a public forum, you'll get public responses.

This just in: local scaled person doesn't understand dismissals.

'I don't like their opinion so I'm going to bait them into saying something that'll allow me to label them a transphobe so I can be done with it that way'

Nah. I already pretty much knew what their opinion was from the gate, I just hate when people skirt around it rather than saying it outright. If you hold opinions like that, might as well say it with your chest.

Side note: I hate how small the post limit is. :/