Are classes needed? POLL

[Fionlagh]

Unjammer, its not cap, were mid level chars, also, while not glamorous theres also traits. oh yeah, also not a huge deal but jobs do have their own combos.

[Vaymathias]

Of course my trolling is intentional but I'm also making a point.

FFXIV is FFXIV, why does it have to be like FFXI or <insert another MMO here>? Ppl hate the armoury system simply because its different. That is not a good reason to me. FFXIV has been all about the armoury system from day one. SE was *nice* enough to add jobs into the mix to give us more flavors and stuff to choose. Instead ppl decide they like jobs better because jobs are nostalgic and defined and classes are more flexible and well..not nostalgic.

If DRG was a job, except it was called something else, we wouldnt be having this conversation. They should have named the jobs something entirely different so these complaints would cease and desist.

People hate the armory system because it's insanely limiting, AND it's no longer the armory system, it changed a lot in many ways excluding it's name.

The class + Job system needs a lot of work. Classes need to be less specialized, and Jobs need to be relatively more powerful for the extra work. Gladiator is a tank, so is PLD, but PLD does it far better than GLD leaving any reason to even have GLD except having it as a stepping stone.

[Fionlagh]

I agree Kinseykinz, thats how i see it headed also

[XStruckX]

I really hope they do away with classes...

Answer me this... How are they gonna implement Samurai, Ninja, Musketeer.

Those are gonna have to be new classes with their own set of jobs?
So Dark Knight? Everyone is saying its gonna be a MRD job. A Dark Knight with a great axe? So they are saying that classes are gonna have multiple jobs to choose from right? Whats a samurai gonna have? Whats a musketeer gonna have?

Make this simple on us SE, do away with classes and have each job work off its own weapons and abilities...

NIN > katana
SAM > 2h katana
DRK > scythe
MSK > a freaking gun please...only time you see a gun around here is during Limsa's opening scenes.

Give Bard an instrument and give Archer back its dang bow. Yeah its cool whatever Bard has a bow but come on we have 4 songs? I love bard and would love to see a fully fleshed out job. XI had over 50 songs on bard and we get 4? I don't wanna see my favorite jobs just be a couple of new abilities tacked on to a generic class. Why does SE insist on taking the easy route.

IMO make EACH job unique and exciting with its own mechanics and its own weapon. I hate to see what's gonna happen in the future. Imagine MRD with WAR DRK and some other random job all weilding great axes and each job with only a few more abiliies. Add to the fact that they spend time adding weapons and armor that are class specific, I mean NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY MRD when you can play WAR. Even if it is better in solo situations etc etc blah blah which seems to be everyone's defense against removing classes.

"Well MRD has access to more spells and can solo better and can use a stronger weapon than WAR can!"

So MRD can use a stronger weapon that WAR can? Does anyone else find this redundant?! I swear SE you do so much right but then at the same time you drop the ball. SE you know how to make good games, what's up?

With 2.0 around the corner its getting to the point where people are playing only on the promise that 2.0 will bring sunshine and rainbows. At times I go pretty bananas at this 2.0 dream...only to see patches leading up to 2.0 going in directions I am not fond of. I fear that my MMO days might be coming to an end and if 2.0 doesn't deliver I won't be the only one wiping the dust off the old bat and glove.

[Fionlagh]

Good point Vaymathias, of alll classes (IMO) GLD needs the most work. I also agree classes need more separation in identity/utility

[Duelle]

Give Bard an instrument and give Archer back its dang bow. Yeah its cool whatever Bard has a bow but come on we have 4 songs? I love bard and would love to see a fully fleshed out job. XI had over 50 songs on bard and we get 4?

Of which only 4 were trully useful (Ballad, March, Elegy, Madrigal) and everything else was a waste of space until Abyssea procs made them quasi-relevant. It's not that different. In fact, they actually gave Bard something to do when not using songs. That and Bards ARE a subsect of the Rogue archetype, which can use daggers and bows. XIV's Bard is more like the Bard from Bard's Tale or a classic D&D Bard rather than...well, that horrible thing from XI that was stupidly rare that few actually liked playing, to the point it gave birth to the princess BRD.

PS: If you want a more modern example, look up Dragon Age: Origins. Leliana, in specific.

[Kinseykinz]

I really hope they do away with classes...

Answer me this... How are they gonna implement Samurai, Ninja, Musketeer.

Those are gonna have to be new classes with their own set of jobs?
So Dark Knight? Everyone is saying its gonna be a MRD job. A Dark Knight with a great axe? So they are saying that classes are gonna have multiple jobs to choose from right? Whats a samurai gonna have? Whats a musketeer gonna have?

Make this simple on us SE, do away with classes and have each job work off its own weapons and abilities...

NIN > katana
SAM > 2h katana
DRK > scythe
MSK > a freaking gun please...only time you see a gun around here is during Limsa's opening scenes.

Well for starters, not all of these are 'Jobs' some of them, if offered, will probably be Classes.

Lets Look at 'Musketeer' as the guild is already in game.

Musketeer will more than likely be a ranged CLASS one day. (Again, you can go visit the guild in LL right now if you'd like to do so). As a Class, it will gain access to it's own weapons class... probably Pistols and/or Rifles. It is even likely that in order to 'unlock' this class, all you will need to do is buy the appropriate weapon. (no pre-req required like all other classes atm).

Then one day, SE might decide to release a new JOB that also uses Guns...maybe they call it 'Sniper' or 'Hunter' or 'Ranger' who knows... but in order to unlock it, you need to have your Musketeer a certain level and Archer a certain level...maybe even another class, but point is, the Job is a specalization of the class. (A musketeer is just a military man, but a Sniper is a highly-trained specific branch of the military.)

So basically, you can't think of everything as a Job...because it's not. Look for ways in which current classes (and potential future ones) can be molded together to give you new Jobs.

Pugilist Guild already spawned the Monk class...which is a more pure, devout fighter type. But being a Guild that controls finance in Uldah, would it not make sense that Thieves also somehow come from there (btw, the PGL main storyline already deals with counterfitters) it is plausable a Thief class spawns from here...

Another Possibility for Thief is it becomes it's own new class...but if so, I'd probably be a LL/Pirate storyline. This would also Thief to get it's own weapon (dual daggers). It would also allow Thief to potentially be the basis for Jobs like Ninja.

Point is, there are a lot of ways to work it....but it's very hard to see how it will all come together as a mid-rank character pre 2.0. It'll take getting into 2.0 AND seeing a level cap increase before we really get a feel as to what the whole Class/Job Armory System has to offer.

[XStruckX]

Of which only 4 were trully useful (Ballad, March, Elegy, Madrigal) and everything else was a waste of space until Abyssea procs made them quasi-relevant. It's not that different. In fact, they actually gave Bard something to do when not using songs. That and Bards ARE a subsect of the Rogue archetype, which can use daggers and bows. XIV's Bard is more like the Bard from Bard's Tale or a classic D&D Bard rather than...well, that horrible thing from XI that was stupidly rare that few actually liked playing, to the point it gave birth to the princess BRD.

PS: If you want a more modern example, look up Dragon Age: Origins. Leliana, in specific.

Yeah I played Dragon Age I enjoyed it... The lore and the mystery behind Leliana was great especially the little expansion they had for her. I totally hear you on that! On Bard only having 4 useful songs in FFXI I think it would be fair to say the number is a little higher. I used quite a few but I made the mistake of forgetting the different tiers of strengths for the songs. Fine give it a dagger or some other weapon as well...oh wait we can't use multiple weapons on a class/job. Here is the solution ready for this?

Give bard a flute right? Make it the weapon... you sing songs that do more than just buff. Does damage, debuffs, crowd control, speed enhancement as well us the usual buffs. The possibilities are endless on what a bard can do...

As it is now we are an ARC that can do a couple of extra buffs. BOOM that's the bard. Kinda lame imo...

Think of your Bard as someone that can do a channeling constant damage on the mob while his buffs are up, being able to slow, stun, poison. Being able to use his "ahem" instrument for anything any other mage can do. There is that mage everyone is looking for.

[Fionlagh]

thank you for explaining that , kinsey, saved me the trouble lol..
its not that hard to wrap your brain around , people and if you do a little research you will find interviews with Yoshi P talking about ideas on how to introduce classes and jobs. in one interview he talked about thief and ninja, in another he brought up summoner and beastmaster, its all in the works.

[Duelle]

As it is now we are an ARC that can do a couple of extra buffs. BOOM that's the bard. Kinda lame imo.

Your opinion is noted. I disagree with it, but it is noted nevertheless.

You missed my point, though. The classic bard had the songs as the back up/flavor of the class. That's why D&D Bards were strong as hell and were ridiculously versatile. They were a rogue/archer that could sing and buff their group. That's what we have now. As ranged damage dealer makes sense in this context and may even lure people to playing the job, I'm all for this if it will keep the idiocy of the princess BRD from happening again. I'm not going to support anything that will turn BRD into a class that few are willing to play so that the shrewd can abuse that to hold parties and entire endgame shells hostage.

And people are looking for an additional mage because their minds demand symetry, which doesn't exist at the moment. I don't think most realize that magic is so cut and dry in FF that you'd need to turn Geomancer or Blue Mage into pure casters and build from there. The approach XIV has taken to magic demands that each caster has its own type of magic, so we're kind of limited until the devs can invent something. As I've said elsewhere, I don't care what they come up with as long as I get my magic fencer RDM at the end of the day.