Are classes needed? POLL

[Ayden]

One thing I did not see anyone talk about is <experience point>.

Now one job can be unlocked from a class. Both class and job share the <same experience point bar>. If more jobs were to branch out from the same base class, where would the <experience point> that you get go to?

Sharing the same 50lvl abilities from the base class with another job is boring and basically make the two jobs the same. And your new job would immediately be lvl50 after just finishing the unlock quest of you have already had the base class leveled to 50, which is something I would not want to have.

I am wondering how they are going to implement this [one class -> multiple jobs] system, if that's what they intend to do.

My guess is every new job would require a new base class to be added.

[Vaymathias]

One thing I did not see anyone talk about is <experience point>.

Now one job can be unlocked from a class. Both class and job share the <same experience point bar>. If more jobs were to branch out from the same base class, where would the <experience point> that you get go to?

Sharing the same 50lvl abilities from the base class with another job is boring and basically make the two jobs the same. And your new job would immediately be lvl50 after just finishing the unlock quest of you have already had the base class leveled to 50, which is something I would not want to have.

I am wondering how they are going to implement this [one class -> multiple jobs] system, if that's what they intend to do.

My guess is every new job would require a new base class to be added.

Well they could increase the exp from 51-75 to be higher than they would of had previously.

As long as a class branches out to multiple jobs that fulfill different roles from one another, it can only be a good thing. If I'm a LNC, and LNCs get Dragoon (DD) and also a Tank job, even though I might be (knowing me, definitely) focusing on DRG, as long as I have the gear and the willingness to play a tank, I can play the tank job and STILL progress in my DRG job, thus filling an extra slot in a party if one or the other is LFP. Something like this across multiple classes would be grand, and make partying easier to set up.

[Wicka]

I am all for dropping classes. Freedom is nice sure, but with as much freedom as the armory system gives us, we end up with a muddled sense of purpose. I doubt that this will change, but I do feel that the game would be better if it did.

I mean, lets look at what happens when you add different jobs to the same classes we have now; PGL becomes Monk as well as (I dunno, Dancer I guess). Well I already spent all that time leveling PGL to get Monk and I leveled from 30 to 50 as Monk to finish all my monk stuff. Now when dancer (or whatever) is released, it starts as a lvl 50 job, all i have to do is go do a few quests and boom I'm done with dancer. Also, dancer is only marginally different from Monk, because there are only 5 abilities (keep in mind that I haven't touched the level cap issue) that change the way PGL functions.

Another thing we can look at is the introduction of new classes and jobs. jobs like Puppetmaster and Summoner could be finagled as Jobs on existing classes, but lets assume that they come with a new class. First of all, unless the class is a pet class, from level 1 to 30 you have no pet. Unlocking the job grants you your pet, but you only get 5 abilities that are complimentary to said pet, making you very similar to the class you just came from. And if the class that becomes Puppetmaster or Summoner IS a pet class, will it be a 3rd type of pet (neither a Puppet or a Summon)? In that case you still don't get your desired pet until level 30.

Again, I doubt that the current armory system will be changed, but I do think it would benefit greatly from the removal of classes. Keep the requirements for job quests, (eg. lvl 30 Monk and Lvl 15 Drg) to be able to to your quests that grant abilities. As far as the argument that classes are needed for soloing is concerned; I say meh. I play an MMO to play with others, if I wanted a solo experience I'd pop in my copy of Skyrim. And really, I have done most of this game's content just duo-ing with my Pally-playing friend. Of course that hasn't inhibited my ability to solo most of the Path of the 12 quests or any levequest, as Monk mind you. For now the system is OK. But when more jobs are added, they would be best added with their own class to avoid the shared level situation. And if each class has only one job, then whats the point? Of course if they just kept the class/job ratio at 1/1, that would be fine with me.

PS. People don't hate the Armory system because it's different. People hate the armory system (especially now that there are jobs) for many other reasons. Just because some people crave a system that is similar to other MMOs, that does not mean they want cookie cutter games. If you play FPSs on console, would you be happy if the developer made the trigger button be that weird Thumbstick-click instead of a shoulder button? Certain aspects of certain games are simply proven to work within that genre. Being different is a good thing. But simply being great is better.

[Mizuharu]

I honestly like how the class/job system works compared to just a job system. There are plenty of mixes for two classes to make an advance job.

GLD30/THM15 : Red Mage (Melee job with access to a mix of white and black magic?)
GLD30/CON15 : Paladin
GLD30/MRD15 : Fighter (Monkey Grip trait?)
GLD30/ARC15 : Hunter or Sniper from Final Fantasy Tactics
GLD30/LNC15 : ??? ...I'm not sure about this one D:

But yeah, that's just me thinking up possibilities. As long as Yoshida is in charge and Tanaka never sets foot anywhere near the FFXIV dev discussion room, I'm cool with whatever they do with this game~<3

[Jericho]

I agree with Tonkra. It's not a proper system. It was thrown together to appease use for a short time, just like most things happening pre 2.0. I'm not complaining, there probably wasn't a whole lot of options. This was probably the easiest to implement. Out of all the different ways they could have implemented jobs, personally I don't think this was the best way to go, but they could have made more sense by:

Class ->
Weapon Specialization, and as such, skills should only reflect weapons. Weapon skills and very basic job abilities for DoW. Some WS's and Basic single target magic for DoM. Cross class skills are allowed, with penalties, same as now.

Job ->
Should become available at level 15 or 20, not 30. Boosts stats relative to what the job entails, adds job abilities and advanced magic, maybe one exclusive weapon skill each (for now). Cross class skills can work the same way. At least 10 abilities/spells exclusive to the job.

The goal is to have, eventually, 2 or more jobs per class. Right now, those jobs are going to be waaaay too similar. The only difference is up to 10 different actions, half of which being cross-class actions that may be the same. And a slight stat change (What is it now, like a maximum of of 20 points shifted around?)

Example: Archer.
Base:
Level 1 - Light Shot, Refill, Heavy Shot
Level 3 - Piercing Arrow
Level 6 - Hawk's Eye - Cross Class skill
Level 9 - Leaden Arrow
Level 12 - Raging Strike - Cross class skill
Level 15 - Shadowbind
Level 24 - Gloom Arrow
Level 32 - Quick Nock
Level 40 - Bloodletter
Level 44 - Chameleon - Cross class skill
Level 48 - Wide Volley
*In my opinion, knowing how to take precise aim (Hawk's Eye), target vital areas (Raging strike) and knowing how to blend in (Chameleon) is something a normal archer would know how to do.

Bard:
Level 18 - Battle Voice - For real, make this a little stronger
Level 22 - Swiftsong
Level 26 - Unlock, Lament of Peace - Wtf, whatever, some kinda HP regen song.
Level 30 - Minuet of Rigor - Make this attack + accuracy
Level 34 - Ballad of Magi
Level 38 - Requiem of Death - Again, whatever, some kinda attack song
Level 42 - Waltz of Wizardry - Sounds awful. Attack Magic + Attack Accuracy
Level 46 - Pianissimo - JA to Single target a song
Level 50 - Paeon of War
Level 50 - Rain of Death - Unlockable weapon skill for use when playing as an archer (Oh snap)

Thief:
Level 18 - Perfect Dodge
Level 22 - Steal
Level 26 - Sneak Attack
Level 30 - Decoy
Level 34 - Flee
Level 38 - Quelling Strike
Level 42 - Hide
Level 46 - Trick Attack
Level 50 - Barrage
Level 50 - Bonus Weapons Skill when playing as archer.


Kinda cool, maybe? Allows for same amount of skills we have now, except for the extra weapon skill. Which would be awesome if that only applied when you were playing as that job, which would mean cross class jobs. Potentially. Though nobody would do it. Thoughts?

[Temos]

Mizuharu

I honestly like how the class/job system works compared to just a job system. There are plenty of mixes for two classes to make an advance job.

GLD30/THM15 : Red Mage (Melee job with access to a mix of white and black magic?)
GLD30/CON15 : Paladin
GLD30/MRD15 : Fighter (Monkey Grip trait?)
GLD30/ARC15 : Hunter or Sniper from Final Fantasy Tactics
GLD30/LNC15 : ??? ...I'm not sure about this one D:

But yeah, that's just me thinking up possibilities. As long as Yoshida is in charge and Tanaka never sets foot anywhere near the FFXIV dev discussion room, I'm cool with whatever they do with this game~<3

The only problem with this is that gladiator Uses shield abilities and would be the base class for those jobs which would also us shield abilities as well as defensive abilities and traits. So all we would be getting is many tanks with only very little differences. Ask your self would a Red Mage ever need to or want to use flash or war drum. It just doesn't work. With out having 1 class per 1 job it creates to many clones. if gladiator gets any other jobs besides PLD there are going to be tanks. And if you think the WAR PLD threads were bad......

Same can be said for the other classes and jobs as well.

[Eliseus]

FFXI job system, yes please! I want to be able to equip other weps on my drg right meow!

[EdenArchangel]

My biggest disappointment is getting only 5 abilities when becoming a job, all spaced out 5 levels apart.

I feel like the class system may be holding jobs back in that aspect, as they have to separate and balance class and job.

Especially when new people come in, leveling fresh jobs, the way it's done currently won't feel "natural" or "right" to people familiar with final fantasy.

[Firon]

My biggest disappointment is getting only 5 abilities when becoming a job, all spaced out 5 levels apart.

I feel like the class system may be holding jobs back in that aspect, as they have to separate and balance class and job.

Especially when new people come in, leveling fresh jobs, the way it's done currently won't feel "natural" or "right" to people familiar with final fantasy.

Well you have to think we wont be 50 forever and anyone has played melee in XI the skills we get in this game is a big step up... MNK learned like what 5 skills to 75 in xi.. oh wait. Only classes that felt like it had a lot was mages and even then most of that stuff became useless cause of tier spells.

BRD had something like 100+ spells with 95% of them being useless.

Edit: ppl need to drop the idea that gla + blm is gonna make rdm they are gonna just make new class for new jobs.

[Duelle]

ppl need to drop the idea that gla + blm is gonna make rdm they are gonna just make new class for new jobs.

This. Considering GLA is so tank-oriented, Fencer would be a much better fit.

I feel like the class system may be holding jobs back in that aspect, as they have to separate and balance class and job.

I look at class as a reasonable limitation that prevents breaking of concept in certain areas of gameplay. Dragoons are known for using lances, and as such should not really be using any other weapon. Red Mages are known for the rapier, and the same rule thus applies. It prevents weird shenanigans like the whole "RDM with a staff" thing we saw in FFXI.