How is monk after the rework?

[Amh_Wilzuun]

You have 4 charges of positional-nullifying skills and, on the average not-spinning boss, need move less than a foot to go from flank to rear to flank again.

Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

Why would you expect there not to be an overlap? Having a tarp with which to cover a problem doesn't make the problem not exist.

You generate enough positional-nullification duration to cover every GCD of Perfect Balance every time. It is therefore easy to utilize optimally.

That still doesn't mean that Leaden Fist, by being a problem only through factors outside the player's control and over so narrow a span that it cannot meaningfully be compensated for except via a please-remove-my-core-gameplay button, doesn't significantly reduce player agency or add a seemingly arbitrary or chance-based factor to their performance far beyond what other jobs face.

Perfect Balance is easy to optimize. Leaden Fist is problematic. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[wereotter]

Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine....

But when it comes to Perfect Balance, it just so happens to have the same cooldown as True North, so... you should always have that available to use during that phase.

[Shurrikhan]

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine.....

Tbf, at that time Monk had up to 4 skills usable that had no positionals. Optimized and without conditionals, that was mostly down to ToD and Fracture, and thus limited to roughly every 30 and 18s, respectively, but it was still significant.

Heck, unless you were needing to up your dodge chance or physical defense, neither of which worked on most raid damage, there was little cost to taking Impulse Drive, which was an entirely on-demand positionless skill (once its positional was moved to Chaos Thrust early on in ARR), albeit at 10-20 more TP than the average Monk skill.


...Honestly, I much preferred that over the oGCD nullifiers we have now.

[Vyrerus]

Tbf, at that time Monk had up to 4 skills usable that had no positionals. Optimized and without conditionals, that was mostly down to ToD and Fracture, and thus limited to roughly every 30 and 18s, respectively, but it was still significant.

Heck, unless you were needing to up your dodge chance or physical defense, neither of which worked on most raid damage, there was little cost to taking Impulse Drive, which was an entirely on-demand positionless skill (once its positional was moved to Chaos Thrust early on in ARR), albeit at 10-20 more TP than the average Monk skill.


...Honestly, I much preferred that over the oGCD nullifiers we have now.

It was not early on in ARR lol. Impulse Drive kept the rear positional until 2.5. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional. It's what literally kicked DRG out of raiding in FCoB until 2.5.

[Shurrikhan]

It was not early on in ARR lol. Impulse Drive kept the rear positional until 2.5. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional. It's what literally kicked DRG out of raiding in FCoB until 2.5.

Admittedly I should have double-checked. Since it was on-demand and therefore pretty easy to land, I didn't have any super firm memories; I just didn't remember it being a hassle and had DRG capped by 2.1, so I figured it was soon after. (Heck, most of my memories of Impulse Drive surround when it was optimally used twice or thrice per Demolish on Monk since Monk's native potencies were so low and Demolish's DoT initially didn't scale with GL...)

Alas, it was 2.45. My mistake.

[ssunny2008]

. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional.

Stuff like that would actually bring enjoyment back to the gameplay.

Doesn´t matter which class you play... get max level, open balance discord, be friendly to a dummy about an hour and feel like a master on your class. The variety and decision - making by the player got pretty much nullified and i´m pretty sure it´ll get even worse with endwalker.

Monk is atleast one of the last classes, where you´ve a bigger gap between "good / bad played". But if we look at the latest rework, things will go nuts in the future too.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine....

But when it comes to Perfect Balance, it just so happens to have the same cooldown as True North, so... you should always have that available to use during that phase.

You are correct... I guess I tend to not use TN on PB because it's more fun to me. It's still fast GCD and more weaving compared to WAR.

[SpeckledBurd]

We are getting farther and farther away from my original point.

I mean your original suggestion was fine on paper and pretty in line with how the devs develop skills now, but I think we can infer from the tenor of the discussion that followed that people don't really care for Perfect Balance and Leaden Bootshine as they're currently implemented. By extension there isn't a ton of interest in making the Perfect Balance phase cap off with a new skill that is functionally Leaden Bootshine Plus, and we'd rather see something else instead of building on it in the future.

There isn't a need to try and salvage something that people don't like about Monk. On some level the many half-assed attempts at doing that is what lead to Greased Lightning ultimately being removed when there were clear ways to make it work in content, and more often than not it's what has caused Monk to be a graveyard of pointless traits and skills.