How is monk after the rework?

[Raikai]

Just think of it as the skeleton for a future rework, nothing more

I think it's quite funny that despite this being obvious (if not outright said in some interview or another), there are a lot of players losing to the fact that MNK got watered down to nada.

GL was a system that didn't age well, and would probably mean a brickwall at some point, for that I'm glad it's gone for a new kind of mechanic that is bound to be inserted in EW!

[Powercow]

I think it's quite funny that despite this being obvious (if not outright said in some interview or another), there are a lot of players losing to the fact that MNK got watered down to nada.

GL was a system that didn't age well, and would probably mean a brickwall at some point, for that I'm glad it's gone for a new kind of mechanic that is bound to be inserted in EW!

A lot of us old Monk players are super jaded. I appreciate the optimism, and it's entirely possible Monk will get some cool, badass feature in EW that makes then super interesting and fun but... well like I've said before, if SE knew how to do that they woulda done it when Monk stagnated hard going into Stormblood.

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion? What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

[Raikai]

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion?

For all that matters, they could've left Monk untouched and do everything all at once in EW, both the gutting and the renewal. I suspect they experimented with the gutting mid-xpac to test the grounds or something? I don't know. To me Monk before was insufferable because of GL and all the other issues and after the gut is insufferable because of how bland it is, so to me personally it wouldn't matter a lot.

What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

That's the risk with any expansion. The progression system that XIV lives on with cumulative additions as the level tiers go up can mean anything to any job... Something that works beautifully nowadays like BLM can break just by the addition of 1 new spell or 1 new mechanic. Or the new "remake" might not personally please you, despite being well made... Or the worst case scenario is that they'll just fail and try again in 7.0.

[SpeckledBurd]

A lot of us old Monk players are super jaded. I appreciate the optimism, and it's entirely possible Monk will get some cool, badass feature in EW that makes then super interesting and fun but... well like I've said before, if SE knew how to do that they woulda done it when Monk stagnated hard going into Stormblood.

It's also the case that this isn't the first time Monk has been in this situation. In Heavensward Monk had major issues and the devs declared that the job balance was overall too screwed up for them to do anything further, so they gave up and gave us Stormblood Monk, which was very poorly received on Launch. Then after all of Stormblood and all of the criticism of that, where the devs actively said on Stream that they thought Stormblood Monk was a poor direction for the job and that they were taking feedback to improve it they made... Shadowbringers Monk, which was basically just 4.0 Monk but worse. The most attention they ever gave Monk was the 5.4 changes and as VentVanitas so summarized so well, they arguably made the job feel worse by exacerbating existing problems.

The devs have by their own actions given every reason for Monk players to be skeptical that the job will ever get better, so I imagine people are going to continue complaining until they prove us wrong. Maybe they will, but twice bitten, thrice shy at this point.

[wereotter]

A lot of us old Monk players are super jaded. I appreciate the optimism, and it's entirely possible Monk will get some cool, badass feature in EW that makes then super interesting and fun but... well like I've said before, if SE knew how to do that they woulda done it when Monk stagnated hard going into Stormblood.

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion? What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

They actually told us this rework was like it is because they're setting up the job better for next expansion, though. Other job reworks have not had that same caveat from the developers. Additionally, you could argue that unlike jobs like machinist or ninja, monk just didn't have a deep well of skills to alter in order to do a massive rework when you consider just how many skills were passive skills that existed only to maintain greased lightning. Could they have done something more interesting? Absolutely. But we do have to realize they were working with a much more shallow pool of potential skills than they were with other jobs.

[Powercow]

They actually told us this rework was like it is because they're setting up the job better for next expansion, though. Other job reworks have not had that same caveat from the developers. Additionally, you could argue that unlike jobs like machinist or ninja, monk just didn't have a deep well of skills to alter in order to do a massive rework when you consider just how many skills were passive skills that existed only to maintain greased lightning. Could they have done something more interesting? Absolutely. But we do have to realize they were working with a much more shallow pool of potential skills than they were with other jobs.

Last thing I saw on this rework was that the changes were put in mid-Shadowbringers so that Monks wouldn't have to wait until the next expansion for the rework. That sounds to me like what we have *is* the rework, and we're likely going to get the small smattering of skills as usual for next expansion.

Yeah, the new skills won't be about GL maintenence, thank heavens, but frankly we never needed as many as we had. They just kept giving us GL maintenance buttons because that's all they could think to do. But hey, I'm down for being pleasantly surprised.

[Esmoire]

Take from someone into casual PvE content but super into PvP:

I enjoy the current monk quite a bit. It's my favourite DPS to play. That said, I can tell it is a little undercooked. PvE Monk has fat to trim and three buttons to use for disengagement of which none of them feel good... well, Anatman feels cool but it's just rarely a good option. Fist stances feel like they have no reason to exist. For PvP, monk is almost perfect for Feast, but a mixed bag elsewhere... needs a projectile or escape.

Looking forward to the rest of the revisions. I honestly don't think a lot has to change from a fun standpoint personally, yet. I cannot deny the lower usage numbers in both casual PvE as well as raiding.

[AnotherPerson]

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion? What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

[Powercow]

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively thought, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it. And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

[AnotherPerson]

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively though, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it.

Yeah, people were complaining how some didn't like the SB iteration of MNK, some people liked the HW iteration of MNK, etc. So ShB came and they changed MNK again. However, the whole point of MNK getting reworked is because everyone complained about it for multiple expansions. They literally this mentioned in 5.3 that MNK will need to be reworked and addressed this issue by saying they will change it, but a full rework won't be done because they're in the middle of the expansion. At this point, you're just ranting and not looking at the facts by saying how they started gutting MNK in ShB and signals the start of ShB setting things up for Endwalker. No, that's not how it works. Every job got changed in Shadowbringers to have a more solid base foundation - which is why all tanks and healers basically function the same compared to their SB iteration even if people don't like the current changes.

And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

Machinist got reworked but it wasn't the poster-boy of Shadowbringers either. That belonged to DRK due to the storyline direction while we got the new jobs DNC and GNB. Likewise, Endwalker will focus on the new jobs Sage and Reaper, and was stated they wanted to make Paladin the poster boy of the expansion. It doesn't mean other jobs which do get changed or reworked are going to be the main focus either. They already mentioned MNK is getting a rework and SMN is going to change because it's at a breaking point, which is already enough to look forward to. Again, whether those changes will be better or worse is unknown, but at least they're doing something about it.

Unless, you want MNK to literally get the same band-aid treatment as before where new skills have niche usage and most of the damage is from your level 1 bootshine combo?