How is monk after the rework?

[wereotter]

Yeah Monk would be unplayable without those positional-ignoring charges. We are getting farther and farther away from my original point. And I’d like to see a venn diagram of people saying that PB is easy spam and people who think that the bootshine positional is too punishing to miss. Like you have true north and ROE right? (Which I keep in easy to reach spots for a reason)

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine....

But when it comes to Perfect Balance, it just so happens to have the same cooldown as True North, so... you should always have that available to use during that phase.

[Shurrikhan]

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine.....

Tbf, at that time Monk had up to 4 skills usable that had no positionals. Optimized and without conditionals, that was mostly down to ToD and Fracture, and thus limited to roughly every 30 and 18s, respectively, but it was still significant.

Heck, unless you were needing to up your dodge chance or physical defense, neither of which worked on most raid damage, there was little cost to taking Impulse Drive, which was an entirely on-demand positionless skill (once its positional was moved to Chaos Thrust early on in ARR), albeit at 10-20 more TP than the average Monk skill.


...Honestly, I much preferred that over the oGCD nullifiers we have now.

[Vyrerus]

Tbf, at that time Monk had up to 4 skills usable that had no positionals. Optimized and without conditionals, that was mostly down to ToD and Fracture, and thus limited to roughly every 30 and 18s, respectively, but it was still significant.

Heck, unless you were needing to up your dodge chance or physical defense, neither of which worked on most raid damage, there was little cost to taking Impulse Drive, which was an entirely on-demand positionless skill (once its positional was moved to Chaos Thrust early on in ARR), albeit at 10-20 more TP than the average Monk skill.


...Honestly, I much preferred that over the oGCD nullifiers we have now.

It was not early on in ARR lol. Impulse Drive kept the rear positional until 2.5. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional. It's what literally kicked DRG out of raiding in FCoB until 2.5.

[Shurrikhan]

It was not early on in ARR lol. Impulse Drive kept the rear positional until 2.5. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional. It's what literally kicked DRG out of raiding in FCoB until 2.5.

Admittedly I should have double-checked. Since it was on-demand and therefore pretty easy to land, I didn't have any super firm memories; I just didn't remember it being a hassle and had DRG capped by 2.1, so I figured it was soon after. (Heck, most of my memories of Impulse Drive surround when it was optimally used twice or thrice per Demolish on Monk since Monk's native potencies were so low and Demolish's DoT initially didn't scale with GL...)

Alas, it was 2.45. My mistake.

[ssunny2008]

. I remember the pain that was DRG's positional based combo starters for almost all of ARR. Miss the positional? No combo for you, retry until you get the positional.

Stuff like that would actually bring enjoyment back to the gameplay.

Doesn´t matter which class you play... get max level, open balance discord, be friendly to a dummy about an hour and feel like a master on your class. The variety and decision - making by the player got pretty much nullified and i´m pretty sure it´ll get even worse with endwalker.

Monk is atleast one of the last classes, where you´ve a bigger gap between "good / bad played". But if we look at the latest rework, things will go nuts in the future too.

[SpeckledBurd]

We are getting farther and farther away from my original point.

I mean your original suggestion was fine on paper and pretty in line with how the devs develop skills now, but I think we can infer from the tenor of the discussion that followed that people don't really care for Perfect Balance and Leaden Bootshine as they're currently implemented. By extension there isn't a ton of interest in making the Perfect Balance phase cap off with a new skill that is functionally Leaden Bootshine Plus, and we'd rather see something else instead of building on it in the future.

There isn't a need to try and salvage something that people don't like about Monk. On some level the many half-assed attempts at doing that is what lead to Greased Lightning ultimately being removed when there were clear ways to make it work in content, and more often than not it's what has caused Monk to be a graveyard of pointless traits and skills.

[Morzy]

This sounds less satisfying and fun than the current iteration of the job where you work toward bootshine as the big damage attack. MNK already has a damage buff they maintain during their combos and another one to maintain sounds boring compared to the leaden fist buff. I also don’t see how it makes the monk more about the form based combos since there’s still gonna be an optional rotation to stick to, just without the satisfying bootshines. And if you don’t like perfect balance, suggest a better version of a burst phase. Saying it’s just spamming bootshine is still kinda disingenuous, but if you wanted to make it more complex to build towards a big attack that could be cool.

I think there are better things to strive for than Bootshine as the 'largest hit'. In 2.0 you had a fair number of buffs/debuffs to keep up;

• Dragon Kick: -10% INT/Blunt Resistance Debuff

• Touch of Death: DoT

• Demolish: Better DoT, strongest action.

• Twin Snakes: +10% Damage

• Greased Lightning: 3rd stack giving +30% damage

Monk was KNOWN for being the 'wind-up DPS'. The thrill of the job was starting out as the WORST damage dealer in the party and becoming the best so long as you kept up your buffs/debuffs, executed your positionals correctly, and at one point exercise good TP management.

There were more things to strive for than an upgraded Bootshine. Using an ability without all of your buffs/debuffs was a difference of 40% damage and now that 40% is 10%.

I am glad you find fun in the job. I have played it since 2014 and still love it, but if I'm being honest.. I play SCH more these days. :/ Monk was hard, and I loved that, but now it just feels like a DRG holding spearheads without a pole.


One last thing. Why does DRAGON KICK make your ONE punching ability stronger? How does THAT makes sense? DK is such an awesome animation, and reducing blunt resistance was a suitable consequence of a foot falling down upon your enemy.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Personally I don't really like keeping up a bunch of dots and debuffs but I see where you are coming from. I guess we just disagree because I gravitate towards "nu-monk" and want to build upon it while you miss your old job.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

I mean your original suggestion was fine on paper and pretty in line with how the devs develop skills now, but I think we can infer from the tenor of the discussion that followed that people don't really care for Perfect Balance and Leaden Bootshine as they're currently implemented. By extension there isn't a ton of interest in making the Perfect Balance phase cap off with a new skill that is functionally Leaden Bootshine Plus, and we'd rather see something else instead of building on it in the future.

There isn't a need to try and salvage something that people don't like about Monk. On some level the many half-assed attempts at doing that is what lead to Greased Lightning ultimately being removed when there were clear ways to make it work in content, and more often than not it's what has caused Monk to be a graveyard of pointless traits and skills.

To be fair, there are also plenty of people out there who like the bootshine rotation as a baseline but have other problems with the job (useless skills, lack of build-up, tornado kick animation clipping, etc). The people talking recently aren't representative of everyone. You are right that my suggestion is in line with how the devs develop, which was my intent in making it. I think it just adds onto what we have, making it more satisfying, while being something I could actually see them doing. I don't think it would make the job any worse per se. I am just keeping my expectations low and offering up one suggestion for now that is feasible. I would like to see a really cool system like blitzes and whatnot implemented in the future though. Another idea is to have the bootshine plus be used during downtime but make PB more nuanced somehow

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Monk had no positional nullyfying skills in ARR and Heavensward and I managed to play the job just fine....

But when it comes to Perfect Balance, it just so happens to have the same cooldown as True North, so... you should always have that available to use during that phase.

You are correct... I guess I tend to not use TN on PB because it's more fun to me. It's still fast GCD and more weaving compared to WAR.