The dream of Mythic is basically dead... Frost Interview with Yoshida

[Shurrikhan]

it's become a part of Warcraft's underbelly black-market where players sell key runs for gold and RMT.[/I]

The majority of WoW's RMT still goes towards raid clears, probably followed thereafter by arena carries. Paid clears/carries have been a thing since Vanilla. Heck, there are even sales for Torghast (casual side-content). So why are we uniquely blaming one piece of especially accessible / long-scaling content like M+ for a game's run-sale culture that predates it by a dozen years?

Mythic 4-man dungeon's

5-man.

[Rilifane]

World of Warcraft Mythic is what it is and what those who look for it tend to enjoy because of the weekly rotating affixes and how the difficulty spikes can be partially controlled via keys, but more then that; it's become a part of Warcraft's underbelly black-market where players sell key runs for gold and RMT.

RMT and black market was never the primary appeal of mythic+ nor is it exclusive for it. It's a side effect of not being able to prevent such things for any content of that sort; be it raids, mythic+, PvP or achievements.
A company cannot control who you form a party with - there is literally zero difference for the game between a premade made of a buyer and a couple of run sellers and a premade made of friends. You can prohibit account sharing all you want, it's always possible to bypass it somehow.
Just look at FFXIV PFs and you'll see how much of a mythic+ thing it is.

There is a whole subculture of personalities and a eSports league with real cash prizes on the line connected to Mythic 4-man dungeon's. That's not something another game can easily mimic or try to partially incorporate with hopes of attracting the same sort of personalities and evoke the same type of successes and failures.

Once again, that wasn't the primary appeal for Mythic+ either nor is it essential for it to function. It's a side effect of the generally competetive nature of WoW and its players. People even kept asking for eSports events for pet battles.

I'm glad we aren't getting anything like that in FFXIV, but I don't believe that it should excuse them from at least trying to innovate and perhaps look at what made Mythic resonate with Warcraft players and say: "Alright, so we know the whole system itself wouldn't work in our game, but what about this small little piece here? Perhaps that could work somewhere in our game."

Exactly, we look at Mythic+ and see that pretty much the whole system would work here. RMT and eSports are not part of the system itself, they are either unavoidable or a side effect of the community and its followers.
The system itself only includes (or would include): light party content with scaling difficulty for players of various skills levels, added randomness through something (Affixes or something else), added pressure through additional rewards being tied to a timer.
RMT/ gill sell runs will inevitably happen as with everything that people want but don't want to get themselves.
eSports will very likely not happen and it doesn't make a difference for the system itself nor will it matter. Mythic+ was immensly popular before either RMT or eSports really hit.

FFXIV sorely lacks midcore content that ideally starts with the difficulty catching the casual crowd and ending with a difficulty that's meant for skilled players that are into challenges and optimization.
FFXIV escpecially lacks such content for light parties.
With the dps meta firmly in place for years it would even work quite well with the current system; it would teach bit by bit how it feels to push for more and more efficiency, something you're never confronted with until you hit (to an extend) ex and savage.

[Tithian]

But Mythic+ is an optional difficulty. The Normal dungeons remain intact and because Tome, EX, Eden Normal, 24 man and crafted gear wouldn't be removed, you'd still be able to obtain high ilv gear more than sufficient for any content the game has to offer.

The moment it becomes the optimal gearing strategy over running normal dungeons, it stops being optional. Mythic+0 is dead content in WoW, except maybe during the 1st month of the expansion. The Normal dungeons will be affected because the playerbase will be split and the Roullette queues will go up, so if the tanks/healers only opt for Mythics the DPS will follow.

[Shurrikhan]

The moment it becomes the optimal gearing strategy over running normal dungeons, it stops being optional. Mythic+0 is dead content in WoW, except maybe during the 1st month of the expansion.

Well, shoot, I guess PvP and eventually Mythic raiding just became obligatory.

And RIP Normal becoming dead content after week 2 and Heroic by week 4; guess they were a waste of time we never should have bothered with. /s

Yes, properly situated rewards matter. But consider how little span actually exists here compared to in, say, WoW, let alone the difference in dev behaviors and reward scheme trends, and this slippery slope argument quickly maxes out at about a four-foot drop. Uncomfortable for some, perhaps, but hardly a real issue.

The Normal dungeons will be affected because the playerbase will be split and the Roullette queues will go up, so if the tanks/healers only opt for Mythics the DPS will follow.

1. Beyond a very small threshold margin, the playerbase being split has no impact on queue times; only the ratio does.
2. If the ratio is significantly altered by the option to play more difficult content, it's doubly time to look at providing tanks and healers with more than just queue/bonus bribes as reasons to play tanks and healers in typical content. If it takes doing difficult content to enjoy oneself as a tank or healer... there's your real problem.

[Dracian]

The moment it becomes the optimal gearing strategy over running normal dungeons, it stops being optional. Mythic+0 is dead content in WoW, except maybe during the 1st month of the expansion. The Normal dungeons will be affected because the playerbase will be split and the Roullette queues will go up, so if the tanks/healers only opt for Mythics the DPS will follow.

It still remains optional as long as there are other pathways to gear upgrades. Whether that be normal raids, savage raids, alliance raids, etc. Scalable 4-player dungeons wouldn't replace those avenues, but merely provide an alternate path to gearing for people that would want to do it.

[Kadhe]

This was incredibly disheartening and made me feel like the developers don't want players like me any more. I like to play this game with just a couple of good friends, do new content together and have a laugh. Some of the best memories I have in this game come from long nights doing the sweaty floors in POTD, clearing Rathalos Ex, or just jumping into roulettes together. I've had way more fun grabbing a few friends on Discord and saying "hey do you wanna log in and do something?" than I've had doing almost anything else in this game. But look at what the future holds instead - more huge dungeons you can't even attempt without strictly scheduling and organising 48 people. Join a 48 person voice channel where for the sake of sanity everyone except the person doing callouts has to be muted. Zero interaction with the other players there. Only Square Enix could put me in a dungeon with 48 people and manage to make me feel like I'm playing the game completely alone... It's almost impressive.

[Fellgon]

Nah i dont like the comcept of mythic of wow or anything that looks like that, (my opinion)

The ultimate, past extreme are the top chalenge stuff in this game.

Pls do not implement wow comcept things, they are not entertaining in wow, neither here. (no ofence).

[Arohk]

Pls do not implement wow comcept things, they are not entertaining in wow, neither here. (no ofence).

I would be fine with a Savage or Extreme version of some dungeons, but the way WoW has mythic level keys implemented nevr was fun to me.

[Shurrikhan]

I would be fine with a Savage or Extreme version of some dungeons, but the way WoW has mythic level keys implemented nevr was fun to me.

So, bring in the equivalents to +10s and +15s, but remove everything in between that'd make it more broadly accessible or more easily run with friends of varying skill levels?

[Almagnus1]

I think having a set of four mans that had the identical layout, like an additional mechanic or two on each of the bosses, while everything does more damage with more health - that could possibly work as a Savage instance.

I think what's missing is the higher tiered dungeon rather than just a boss fight as having a harder 4 or 8 man instance tier (like a Savage) rather than just boss fights would be good for the game. I don't want to have JUST boss fights, I like actual instances that you have to work on.

Then again, instance design for FFXIV has always been it's weak point, so I'm not going to get my hopes up....