The dream of Mythic is basically dead... Frost Interview with Yoshida

[Thoosa]

The problem is, only a small percentage of the playerbase do savage and ultimate. Plus if you’re doing it on PF, you find the good players got BIS and stopped playing months ago so weekly PFs are bad, plus it’s hard to get groups after Tuesday so you just don’t bother and have nothing to do.

IMO there isn’t enough incentive (rewards etc) to do old content and very little “normal” relevant battle content to do.

Therefore, if you like raiding, what do you do? At least mythic type dungeons would have filled some gap.

[Alyssa5]

Yeah it’s unfortunate that they’re apparently deciding to streamline dungeons even more in 6.0. I genuinely don’t even know how that’s possible given how easy the dungeons have been lately. They seem to only care about appeasing the loud, extremely casual playerbase.

When did they say that? I don't recall them talking about doing that ever. Would be unfortunate if true, Dungeons tend to be extremely boring already.

[Flay_wind]

IMO there isn’t enough incentive (rewards etc) to do old content and very little “normal” relevant battle content to do.

For all the flak the BLU gets, it's legitimately a new way to experience said old content. Since the group consists of 8 DPSs, the role mechanics are randomized and at times you have to figure out how to do them. You need to be flexible and be prepared for every possible scenario.
Also there are achievements for doing EX and Savage fights synced with No Echo. Due to BLU's nature being a burst class it can do a lot of damage very quickly and can straight up skip phases, but the closer you get to the level cap, the more you actually need to do the mechanics correctly. Savage raids are still quite challenging. Omega raids are very fun as BLU and second phase of O12S is probably my favorite BLU fight.

[Bright-Flower]

When did they say that? I don't recall them talking about doing that ever. Would be unfortunate if true, Dungeons tend to be extremely boring already.

Yeah I don't know how you get any MORE formulaic than current dungeons. I don't recall reading anything along these lines though.

[Puremallace]

The problem is, only a small percentage of the playerbase do savage and ultimate.

I think they could incentivize this more but they would need to change a few things as a lot of people who come to FF14 come from WoW so the concept of raiding and doing harder content is there. The issue I personally see is FF14 does not use guilds in the same way to organize people into coordinated groups for raid content.

The content size is also smaller so something like a static is even possible. I think it will evolve eventually as more transplants come over to FF14.

[sharlim]

I think they could incentivize this more but they would need to change a few things as a lot of people who come to FF14 come from WoW so the concept of raiding and doing harder content is there. The issue I personally see is FF14 does not use guilds in the same way to organize people into coordinated groups for raid content.

The content size is also smaller so something like a static is even possible. I think it will evolve eventually as more transplants come over to FF14.

4 man mythic style would be pretty cool. I personally am not sure I would be able to clear that content, but I think it makes sense to have multiple paths to work harder to get better stuff (e.g. raids vs crafting), so long as the gap for casuals like myself is not so huge or we will just feel bad haha

[Rilifane]

4 man mythic style would be pretty cool. I personally am not sure I would be able to clear that content, but I think it makes sense to have multiple paths to work harder to get better stuff (e.g. raids vs crafting), so long as the gap for casuals like myself is not so huge or we will just feel bad haha

The beauty of mythic style 4man dungeons (and scaling content in general) is that it catches part of both crowds. Right now a single person can easily carry an entire run. In 80s content even both the healer and tank can be hilariously bad and a dps can carry that. Mythic style dungeons would start barely above that level and can go anywhere from there.
I don't think their "we want good players to be able to carry runs" is a good argument when scaling is up to them and higher difficulties are not designed for deadweight squads anyway. We really need more midcore content and that would've been a great opportunity to bridge the gap between casual and hardcore.

[Elizar_Naki]

When I started playing the game in HW I was fed the same kind of stuff by my gr00mer FC leader at the time, and embarrassingly ended up engaging in 'you pull it you tank it' behavior under his encouragement. Newer players are trained to be in a state of constant insecurity and told that the elitist boogeyman is constantly watching them, when in reality truly elitist interactions are extremely rare in game, even in higher difficulty content.

Playing devil's advocate on this thread for a moment just to give the other side's perspective. Just to be clear ahead of time, I'm not calling any specific person out for anything, even the person I'm quoting (you just happen to have a couple convenient talking points in the section I'm quoting). I also want to make it clear that I'm not against the idea of the content being suggested by the bulk of this thread; I might not participate in Ultimate stuff or do much savage/EX outside my very casual static (more casual than I'd prefer, but they're my friends, and I'm loyal to a fault sometimes), but I don't feel like those bits of content shouldn't be there for the folks who do/enjoy them. And addressing LittleImp himself, I'm sorry all that stuff in your full post happened to you, because it sounds like you've had more than your fair share of experiences with toxic casuals, and I'll fully admit they're just as big a problem as toxic elitists, if not bigger...but toxic elitists ARE still a problem and not just a paranoia thing, even if it's a fairly minimal problem in this game compared to others I've played. Consider the above my tl;dr if you really can't take the time to read my whole post, even if it's not really a good summary of everything below. That being said, on to the part a lot of you won't like.

As a newer player, I was ALSO trained to be in, as quoted above, a constant state of insecurity and told that the elitist boogeyman was watching me...by the randos I got grouped with who exhibited those behavioral patterns quite frequently at the time (thankfully, it's much less common now, though still an issue). I could give any number of examples, though in hindsight many of them could be a symptom of general player impatience (what I consider THE biggest issue in all sides of the game's playerbase, but that's a separate conversation) rather than any sort of elitism, but I'll keep a couple in: when Wanderers HM was new, I had a Coil-titled tank once ruin a run of it I had by repeatedly pulling more than the healer and my wife's and my dps could handle in the second section, and when the healer called him out after the 3rd wipe and asked him to dial it back, he passive-aggressively downgraded to single pulls for the entire rest of the dungeon rather than downgrade that one pull to 2 or 3 smaller pulls to make it more manageable for the group as a whole. I've had more than one run of any number of other things (a particular A1N run comes to mind from back when it was still new) where we spent more time dealing with one or more party members griping about wipes in "easy" content than actually addressing the problems our group was having. As a more recent example: a run of A12N a few months back where I, as a fairly new tank still learning the ropes (and not quite familiar with Alex Prime's patterns yet from a tank perspective), made a mistake that got quite a few people cleaved, resulting in the other tank being a jerk to everyone over every mistake for the remainder of the run, then sarcastically thanking everyone for the "day 1 experience" at the end. Now granted, I'm sure those examples still represent the minority of top-tier players, and I've met quite a few nice ones in my time in Eorzea too, but it's hard to shake those initial experiences, especially when they were more more common back then. I was informally trained to be wary of anyone brandishing a Coil title (which, in my brain, extends to Legend titleholders and people wielding the related weapons nowadays) because that crowd was where I saw the majority of the player base's toxicity coming from in my first few years playing. As much as I'll acknowledge that that mindset is irrational, it's there in my brain and not likely to go away any time soon (to be clear, I don't actively harass those people or do anything to purposefully interfere in their gameplay, and if I'm grouped with them, I judge and respond to them based on their behavior like I do anyone else. I'm just passively on edge around them because, again, early experiences taught me that I need to be, whether it makes sense or not). I'm sure anyone reading this could give equally aggravating examples of toxic casuals in your own groups, and I won't defend those people because they shouldn't be defended. My only point here is that toxic elitists are more of a problem than the high-end crowd are willing to admit (especially based on the attitudes I see a lot of the time here on the forums), just as toxic casuals are a bigger problem than most casual players would admit, and both need to be addressed and/or dealt with.

As for the "you pull it, you tank it" mentality you described, I'll admit to subscribing to that mentality, at least in principle. I don't condone punishing someone who happens to walk just a little too far forward and accidentally grabs something's attention (I've done it at least once, and I'd bet most of you have too), but it's the batch of players who actively and repeatedly pull things when in a non-tank role that bothers me. As another personal example, I had a run of Xelphatol (again, back when it was new and I was still maining NIN) where the tank admitted to being fairly new to the role and wanted to take it easy while they were still learning, only to have the healer and other dps run ahead and grab more things in order to force him to tank bigger packs than he was comfortable with (he was obviously stressed by it based on what he put in chat, but they just insisted that he'd "be fine" and forced the run to move at their pace rather than letting him tank at his). THAT behavior irks me because I'm a firm believer in knowing and STICKING to your role regardless of the difficulty of the content or how much you outlevel/outgear it. Sure, a healer or dps could (and often do) pull anything in content like ST and survive for a few seconds while a tank takes control (which they inevitably will). Sure, a non-tank could (and again, often will) get an ShB S rank's attention and still live because of all the tanks who'll rush in once the mark has been pulled. That doesn't mean they SHOULD. I swap between tank and dps fairly frequently depending on my mood, what content I'm doing, and how much/what kind of player BS I'm willing to put up with that day, but I don't purposefully pull things when I queue red no matter how long the tank(s) is/are taking because that's not my responsibility. The Trinity exists for a reason, and every job exists to fill a role in it. The tank sets the pace of the run and pulls accordingly based on their confidence in both their own skills and their healer's, and having someone else in the group disrupt that by pulling extra isn't a recipe for success--any number of things can go wrong at that point just because someone got impatient and wanted to speed things up beyond what the tank/healer could handle. Simply put, if you're not blue, it's not your job to pull, so don't; if you're too impatient to wait for others to pull, queue blue so it BECOMES your job and make the decision yourself. Imho, it really should be that simple, but again, the playerbase in general is so impatient that they'll usually excuse/forgive anyone pulling just to get things going quicker (even if the bulk of the group hasn't arrived or if new people are in cutscenes or the tank doesn't want big pulls for one reason or another), and tanks will always step in and save them because they're either too nice (that'd be me despite my opinions on the matter) or they're afraid they'll get labelled as toxic if they don't (which I don't agree with but admit to being in the minority on).

But again, none of the above means I'm against the idea of harder dungeons. I'm very much mid-tier in terms of skill, and even I get bored of the supposed "expert" dungeons we get after a while. I might not participate much in higher-difficulty stuff like the Mythics y'all are talking about (I didn't play WoW, so my frame of reference here is pure extrapolation), but if it keeps people more skilled than me playing and happy without actively harming my own experience, I'd be in favor of it.

[FrogDog]

Right at 4 minutes Yoshida basically admits the game is very casual and 4 man content in Mythic type content would lead to wipe fest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C79Oc_HRo1U

This kills me a little on the inside because the 4 man content needs to evolve into a more Mythic type system just to have it there as a challenge.

It does not even need to be progression and could be literally only glamour or mounts for all people would care.

This is really disheartening to hear. It's also a little baffling. I don't do savage raids, but it's my understanding that even though combat raising is a thing in this game, one or two people messing up in a savage encounter can make it hard to pass dps checks. So I don't really get where he's coming from when he says in smaller content if one person dies the stakes are higher. Yeah, that's kind of the whole point isn't it?

I actually chuckled at the Fanfest when they were showing the slide before the preview of the new dungeon and it was titled "Challenging New Dungeons".

It's a shame too. I don't know what mythic dungeons are like but some of my best memories in an MMO are from doing heroic dungeons in WoW - particularly going for red protodrake achievements in Wrath. Having dungeon content that was not only harder, but having achievements that forced you to approach fights in different ways was really fun to me. When it came to my best times healing in MMOs between TBC/Wrath WoW, and SWTOR I tended to gravitate to the two extremes of dungeons and 25-man raids in group sizes. Unfortunately in FF dungeons and alliance raids are ridiculously easy.

It's sad that this sort of thing isn't even on S-E's radar.

[NYCLouisGamer]

I've had similar experiences and I wouldn't consider myself a 'hardcore' player so much as someone who just likes to dabble in as much of the game as possible and collect minions, mounts and neat glamour.

I've never played a game with such a flaky community before. It's a real shame - I like a lot of stuff about FFXIV. It's not a perfect game and I have my beef with it, but out of all the options where MMO's are concerned it's at the top of the pile for me on almost every front.

It's just...so hard to find people to do stuff with, though. From treasure maps to deep dungeons to BLU challenges...

FFXIV is the only MMORPG that I know of that is both based on a single-player RPG experience and is a theme park. It's bread & butter is an audience that came directly from casual & ultra-casual content.

Dark Souls will risk your success in order to preserve enjoyment. FFXIV will risk your enjoyment in order to preserve success.