The dream of Mythic is basically dead... Frost Interview with Yoshida

[Mavrias]

actually no i addressed the need for challenge and my own view on the rewards i was making the argument that extreme and savage gear makes the challenging content you people seem to crave trivial and that there for the rewards should be removed when you severely over gear the content to the point that it goes from being challenging to become a farming fodder clearly the rewards are the problem

i also added in the point that the content never happen it's just make believe

there are multiple facets as to why people like midcore content like savage. challenge is one part, but there are those who do them for speed kills and parse runs, mechanical difficulty, etc.

additionally, this content tends not to become truly trivialized until a new tier is released. if your argument is that extreme and Savage content should not drop weapons, gear, mounts, crafting mats, etc outside of the tier they're being released in, then you're arbitrarily limiting more casual players from earning those rewards at a later time for... pretty much no reason.

a good amount of rewards in this game come from increasingly improbable places. to say, this shouldn't drop because it doesn't make sense in this aspect should apply equally to things like the Nier hairstyles or mounts and emotes earned from Eureka or Ishgard Restoration.

[ReynTime]

Again, then make it 8 players. I've seen people asking for 8-people DUNGEONS for a while now.
Praetorium and Meridianum only suck because they're designed to be super easy and are loaded with unskippable cutscenes.

Other than that... I hate comparison to Mythic, because while I want harder dungeons, and dungeons that aren't designed like glorified dull hallways, I hate the idea of "speedrunning" or imposing a very strict time limit. The challenge shouldn't be coming from the clock.

Savage isn't 'midcore'. Anything that requires multiple weeks of practice to clear, with a static party, can't be called 'midcore'. Extremes are the only content between casual and hardcore in XIV, but before Stormblood dungeons were my favorite feature, and I want to get fun dungeons again, not just more boss arenas.
To me trials always felt like just one part of the package while dungeons were the complete service. It's a shame my mentality is completely opposing to how Yoshida and the XIV team seem to think.

[Shurrikhan]

also i'm glad mythic + was ion's greatest failure

Usually you don't need to run contrary to any and all statistical evidence (e.g., regarding large-scale surveys of favored activities) to make a hot take, but I guess any bad faith argument cupcake ought to have its sprinkles, too...

but like i said this is simply my opinion

You're making an assertion that content above the lowest difficulty should be stripped of its rewards. That's not exactly a "just my opinion, man" kind of proposition once placed in a public space where it can (unlikely but possibly) stimulate action that would be to the detriment of many.

[Vyrerus]

In my opinion, it'd be nice if they added difficulty to dungeons. Even if it were in what some would call a, "tedious" way.

Make a new set of dungeons. Call it, "Long Boi+". Have the dungeons with twists, turns, minor puzzles, and have it so that either the timer is shorter or the content takes up most of the 90 minute default. Maybe make the bosses on par with normal mode raids. Make the rewards gear that's 5 iLvls higher than normal mode raid. Have it come out a patch or two after the normal mode raid of each tier.

[Anhra]

In my opinion, it'd be nice if they added difficulty to dungeons. Even if it were in what some would call a, "tedious" way.

Make a new set of dungeons. Call it, "Long Boi+". Have the dungeons with twists, turns, minor puzzles, and have it so that either the timer is shorter or the content takes up most of the 90 minute default. Maybe make the bosses on par with normal mode raids. Make the rewards gear that's 5 iLvls higher than normal mode raid. Have it come out a patch or two after the normal mode raid of each tier.

Giving Bosses and the random monsters a bigger variety of deadly skills, more HP and a little bit more reaction time (so that they tend to use skills more often) would be more than enough difficulty already with far less effort from the development team, in my opinion. It is amazing how content such as Triple Triad and Housing get more attention than Dungeons, the combat system and PvP.

I do agree with the Bard at the end of the video saying that "They dont play this type of content". I mean, they kinda do in one way or another, but i get the feeling that the Development Team and Yoshi P. don't understand that difficult content, especially for smaller player count is essential to have a proper endgame, be it PvE or PvP.

[Flay_wind]

So, i am all for casuals enjoying the game, but then those same casuals bleed into not so casual content like Extreme Trials for whatever reasons. And what happens is, that they fail and need to be carried by "hardcore" and "elitists". The problem is when there's a majority of casuals, they wipe to the enrage. No, i am not salty that the group i was in wiped to Enrage in Diamond EX farm several times yesterday, because even despite all DPS having Diamond Zeta weapons, aside from me (NIN ~20k) and BRD (18k) group's overall dps was really really bad even with 0 deaths. Like 15k from SAM, 13k from RDM. Tanks did below average damage for that fight as well, 7-8k and both healers did almost no damage whatsoever. I left after the third such wipe. Or i remember The Burn, where Medica 2 WHM just couldn't plain handle Mist Dragon, we cleared after 7 wipes when they somehow managed to get their stuff together, but it was way too hard for casual healer.
So, no, we absolutely must have 4-man harder content in the game, not Mythic+, but at least something that keeps people more alert, than half-asleep.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Again, then make it 8 players. I've seen people asking for 8-people DUNGEONS for a while now.
Praetorium and Meridianum only suck because they're designed to be super easy and are loaded with unskippable cutscenes.

Other than that... I hate comparison to Mythic, because while I want harder dungeons, and dungeons that aren't designed like glorified dull hallways, I hate the idea of "speedrunning" or imposing a very strict time limit. The challenge shouldn't be coming from the clock.

Savage isn't 'midcore'. Anything that requires multiple weeks of practice to clear, with a static party, can't be called 'midcore'. Extremes are the only content between casual and hardcore in XIV, but before Stormblood dungeons were my favorite feature, and I want to get fun dungeons again, not just more boss arenas.
To me trials always felt like just one part of the package while dungeons were the complete service. It's a shame my mentality is completely opposing to how Yoshida and the XIV team seem to think.

Yeah it’s unfortunate that they’re apparently deciding to streamline dungeons even more in 6.0. I genuinely don’t even know how that’s possible given how easy the dungeons have been lately. They seem to only care about appeasing the loud, extremely casual playerbase.

[Alyssa5]

Yeah it’s unfortunate that they’re apparently deciding to streamline dungeons even more in 6.0. I genuinely don’t even know how that’s possible given how easy the dungeons have been lately. They seem to only care about appeasing the loud, extremely casual playerbase.

When did they say that? I don't recall them talking about doing that ever. Would be unfortunate if true, Dungeons tend to be extremely boring already.

[Bright-Flower]

When did they say that? I don't recall them talking about doing that ever. Would be unfortunate if true, Dungeons tend to be extremely boring already.

Yeah I don't know how you get any MORE formulaic than current dungeons. I don't recall reading anything along these lines though.

[Thoosa]

The problem is, only a small percentage of the playerbase do savage and ultimate. Plus if you’re doing it on PF, you find the good players got BIS and stopped playing months ago so weekly PFs are bad, plus it’s hard to get groups after Tuesday so you just don’t bother and have nothing to do.

IMO there isn’t enough incentive (rewards etc) to do old content and very little “normal” relevant battle content to do.

Therefore, if you like raiding, what do you do? At least mythic type dungeons would have filled some gap.