Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

[LisSquid]

One thing that does bother me about players who come to FF14 from another MMO (not just WoW) is when they come here basically expecting another version of the game they just came from. Maybe they think the other game sucks now, maybe they hate the company who runs the other game, maybe they're just bored of the other game. But they come to 14 and do nothing but talk about how great the other game is/was, all of the features that 14 should have that the other game has, all of the mechanics that are better in the other game, etc. In those cases I really do that that "just go back and play the other game then" is a completely appropriate response. If you're going to play 14 because you think it looks cool, or sounds cool, or you just want something new, then fine. But if you're just looking at FF14 and expecting it to be a better version of the game you just left, then you should probably just stay playing that other game. FF14 is FF14, and has been trending towards where it is now for the past 10 years (warts and all). It's far from perfect but it is what it is, and it's not going to become WoW 2.0 or ESO Next or GW3 or whatever you want it to be just because you show up and start playing it.

Found one!

[strawberrycake]

Oh, that's just a sadly normal FFXIV players reaction to anyone mentioning WoW. Although, that is changing as more people finally stop using 14 as their side game and completely move over. Honestly, I'd love to have a discussion about why there's so much hatred for a game that isn't relevant to 14 outside of being another mmo with a similar combat style (surprise, this is why it's appealing to WoW players).

The hate is nearly one sided, as I've seen tons of friendly banter about 14 jobs in trade/lfg chat on WoW. I guess since it's a less volatile topic than whatever meta was happening in that game. You MENTION WoW in 14 and you're looking to get some paragraphs of someone having an absolute meltdown. HOWEVER I have collected a bunch of fresh sprouts from WoW who are having a blast.

Ahem, sorry for that tangent, but that example has very little to do with criticizing 14 and all to do with saying WoW and 14 in the same breath..

Ahoi, I would say a lot of people hate Activision, as a company its scum, its also ran by a man whos actually probably one of the worst human beings in existence for the type of things he does and has done, from what I've heard of, hes anti social, hates video games, will destroy a company and people lives if it means money, and hates video games, there also apparent wall street stuff hes done.

As for the game, I would guess a lot of people have heard the horror stories of the raiding scene, and the mean spirited people that one can meet, some have also experienced it. It leaves a bad taste in many peoples mouth. As a raider myself I will say that yes there are scummy people in WoWs raiding scene, but that also goes for FF, there are try hards in WoW, but there also try hards in FF as well.

The other thing I hear is WoWs raiding is addon based and that creates the toxic enviornment. But (in my exprience) I've never seen a heavy need for addons for most groups I've been in and played with. I will say as an ex-raid lead there are a few that are needed to manage an entire 30 man, but when I was a simple raider at most all I used was recount, most groups encourage people to learn and memorize fights for bertter performance over all, thats all in my experience tho.

I feel both games havemerit personally, and I've never heard anything I feel is a good reason to not like WoW, bar just being a vet and being tired of activision, and even then I've rarely seen people like them like, outright hate and bash on WoW.

[strawberrycake]

One thing that does bother me about players who come to FF14 from another MMO (not just WoW) is when they come here basically expecting another version of the game they just came from. Maybe they think the other game sucks now, maybe they hate the company who runs the other game, maybe they're just bored of the other game. But they come to 14 and do nothing but talk about how great the other game is/was, all of the features that 14 should have that the other game has, all of the mechanics that are better in the other game, etc. In those cases I really do that that "just go back and play the other game then" is a completely appropriate response. If you're going to play 14 because you think it looks cool, or sounds cool, or you just want something new, then fine. But if you're just looking at FF14 and expecting it to be a better version of the game you just left, then you should probably just stay playing that other game. FF14 is FF14, and has been trending towards where it is now for the past 10 years (warts and all). It's far from perfect but it is what it is, and it's not going to become WoW 2.0 or ESO Next or GW3 or whatever you want it to be just because you show up and start playing it.

I disagree, a game can always take ideas from other games and improve them and use them to greater effect. In Fact if you watch the no clip interview, Yoshi-P had his dev team play WoW, and a lot of systems in XIV are older systems from WoW.

The ilvl for example is something used by almost all online games now, it was originally an addon for WoW known as gearscore, they eventually hired the guy at blizz and it became a full on feature. The Currency system is from WoW, the way the Trinity (Tanks,Healer,DPS) are structured are more riminicent of early WoW as well.

What makes it all so unique is the developers spin on these ideas and how they're implmented in each MMO! Thats the neat thing about how a lot of the games you mentioned Work!

[Nezerius]

I disagree, a game can always take ideas from other games and improve them and use them to greater effect. In Fact if you watch the no clip interview, Yoshi-P had his dev team play WoW, and a lot of systems in XIV are older systems from WoW.

It's entirely dependant on which ideas are taken. Some ideas would be good (changing the glamour system to be similar to WoW), other ideas would be bad (Warforging/Titanforging from WoW).

The ilvl for example is something used by almost all online games now, it was originally an addon for WoW known as gearscore, they eventually hired the guy at blizz and it became a full on feature.

Kinda nitpicky, but iLvl didn't originate from gearscore. It already existed as a hidden number on an item's tooltip, which could be made visible through the GetItemInfo function. Gearscore simply used this hidden number to create an overall score for the player's gear.

[strawberrycake]

It's entirely dependant on which ideas are taken. Some ideas would be good (changing the glamour system to be similar to WoW), other ideas would be bad (Warforging/Titanforging from WoW).


Kinda nitpicky, but iLvl didn't originate from gearscore. It already existed as a hidden number on an item's tooltip, which could be made visible through the GetItemInfo function. Gearscore simply used this hidden number to create an overall score for the player's gear.

Of course, even they got rid of Titanforging and Warforging themselves, I wish they could have found a way to build upon it, make it somewhat better, but overall its not a huge loss. And you're right! But its still a mainstay in all modern MMOs now.

[ItMe]

One thing that does bother me about players who come to FF14 from another MMO (not just WoW) is when they come here basically expecting another version of the game they just came from. Maybe they think the other game sucks now, maybe they hate the company who runs the other game, maybe they're just bored of the other game. But they come to 14 and do nothing but talk about how great the other game is/was, all of the features that 14 should have that the other game has, all of the mechanics that are better in the other game, etc. In those cases I really do that that "just go back and play the other game then" is a completely appropriate response. If you're going to play 14 because you think it looks cool, or sounds cool, or you just want something new, then fine. But if you're just looking at FF14 and expecting it to be a better version of the game you just left, then you should probably just stay playing that other game. FF14 is FF14, and has been trending towards where it is now for the past 10 years (warts and all). It's far from perfect but it is what it is, and it's not going to become WoW 2.0 or ESO Next or GW3 or whatever you want it to be just because you show up and start playing it.

Right?
It's sad when people come into any game and dismiss a lot of it because "it's not like this other one. It should be more like the one I like more."
Games take ideas and inspiration from each other and that's nice, but man does it get tiring speaking to people who just want X to be Y. Not just for X to use some of Y's ideas, but that X should just strive to be more like Y.

I see this happening semi-often with authors too and that's... just so frustrating.

[Dyvid]

So far we've Lost, deepdungeons, a whole form of sidestory content know as Hildabrand, We used to get multiple dungeons a patch, multiple PvP updates, new gear, 2 forms of endgame content known as Ultimates, Cut content from the Firmament that allowed People to contribute to it without having to be on gathers/crafters. It may mot seem like much but it feels a lot more empty without it honestly.

I'll reply to this one. Obviously Covid happend and development suffered; is what it is.

Though a lot of this xpac didn't interest me for one reason or another some feature I enjoyed The Firmament. I always felt like DoH/DoL needed some kind of "end game" content and this along with relic tools fit the bill. As far a deep dungeons, I'm really not sure how popular Heaven on High was and this might have influenced them to not include another in 5.XX. PvP falls into this catergory too. Only one Ultimate but 3 Unreals, not sure if that's a trade off but there it is. ARR had too many dungeons and Shadow had to few, need a middle ground and I personal dislike the expert and Lv. 80 catergory. Just have one so we can have more variety in the DF.

Personally I don't think 5.XX lacked content giving this issues involved, it just lacked content that interested me. I would say I liked Firmament, Ocean fishing (though would like it closer to what FFXI had), and ARR flying.

I encourage everyone to let the team know what exactly they hate or missed in 5.XX and what they liked and what they would liked to see going forward.

[LisSquid]

Right?
It's sad when people come into any game and dismiss a lot of it because "it's not like this other one. It should be more like the one I like more."
Games take ideas and inspiration from each other and that's nice, but man does it get tiring speaking to people who just want X to be Y. Not just for X to use some of Y's ideas, but that X should just strive to be more like Y.

I see this happening semi-often with authors too and that's... just so frustrating.

It's a tale as old as time, though. Even back in the days of EQ! It's reasonable when someone is used to a certain level of comfort, and see how a system can be done better. Hell, 14 even has infighting about jobs and how "x version of y job was superior".

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'll reply to this one. Obviously Covid happend and development suffered; is what it is.

Though a lot of this xpac didn't interest me for one reason or another some feature I enjoyed The Firmament. I always felt like DoH/DoL needed some kind of "end game" content and this along with relic tools fit the bill. As far a deep dungeons, I'm really not sure how popular Heaven on High was and this might have influenced them to not include another in 5.XX. PvP falls into this catergory too. Only one Ultimate but 3 Unreals, not sure if that's a trade off but there it is. ARR had too many dungeons and Shadow had to few, need a middle ground and I personal dislike the expert and Lv. 80 catergory. Just have one so we can have more variety in the DF.

Personally I don't think 5.XX lacked content giving this issues involved, it just lacked content that interested me. I would say I liked Firmament, Ocean fishing (though would like it closer to what FFXI had), and ARR flying.

I encourage everyone to let the team know what exactly they hate or missed in 5.XX and what they liked and what they would liked to see going forward.

Eh i wouldn’t really compare unreal trials at all to ultimate. Not even as a trade off considering unreal trials aren’t ANYTHING new. It’s literally the same exact fight as the arr trial except they made things do more damage and increased their health and called it “new content.” The thing with the content this expansion is that people kind of look at it from a top layer pov and don’t look at from other layers. The thing is you would expect that content from previous expansions gets upgrades right? As the game goes on things get upgraded to be better. My problem with ShB is that a lot of content seems to be downgraded. Yes covid was a thing but here’s the facts. Just to compare from stormblood we lost: the 3 trial series voice acting,alliance raid voice acting, dungeon per patch,level 50 and 60(and even 70) primal weapons for the new jobs,Unique Ultimate weapon models for the new jobs(Samurai and Rdm both got unique models for their UwU weapons), we got no housing whereas stormblood did get a whole new housing district,deep dungeon,and a whole lot of other things.And the thing is, a good amount of the things i mentioned like the primal weapons and voice acting, their related content was released BEFORE covid was even a thing. So theres really no excuse for it. It’s just crazy to me.

[linayar]

Great! Then this game can go buy to play and they can just give us server access!

For what reason? They'd have to earn income to pay for cost elsewhere and people are already mad about the current online store.

I don't see how a subscription has anything to do with schedules.

When you don't want to/cant play, you don't have to pay. You'd still be able to do most contents that were released when you didn't susbscribe.

Because it has nothing to do with it.

Of course it does. It has nothing to do with anything else but the time when you want to have server access.

I didn’t order and buy shadowbringers to play heavensward arr or sb.

Well, that's just not how this game works. Contents from multiple expansions are still usable for various means. The expansions are actual expansions to the game, not their own separate game where you completely leave out contents from previous expansions. Of course, you can limit yourself to playing contents from the current expansion, but that's your own choice to do.