Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

[ZedxKayn]

14 is a game built around short term power and cosmetics, to some it's a flaw, to others, a strength, but that doesn't make content a waste, I could say the same about Ultimate, I don't do it and what good is it for? A title and a shiny weapon? Get that out of here, let's use those resources for something better! But no, some people really like it and that's all the reason it really needs to exist in a theme park, so long as the devs feel it was cost effective, they'll make it.

How engaging the content is is in my opinion the core of the problem.
You have video games with much less to do in that are a lot more fun because the activities in it are more engaging because it requires players to think.
And much of the content we've been getting is a lot more boring than engaging.
The decreased amount of new dungeons we've been getting have also been hitting like wet noodles, Ishgard fêtes are somehow less engaging than gathering low level mats on ilv 490+ gear, the events have been lackluster and fused together.
This is surely cost effective, but is it good? It's difficult to get something both cheap AND high quality...

We had 4 dungeons in the expert roulette in 5.1, and while they were still a breeze, without a doubt they were still more difficult than what we currently have,we just have half of that now.
An ultimate was cut.
The deep dungeon was cut (the worst part imo)
Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat), and the only addition made to Bozja after it's release was DB and that's it, no new zones, no new CEs.
Hell the 60->70 for BLU is also so much more incredibly barebone compared to 50->60, I was done with it in within the first couple days of the patch and it's not like I focused on it.

I do a bit of everything aside the story, and honestly, I'm not seeing the cut content being given back in a meaningful way.

And yeah, that's the point: regardless of how I feel about low replayability, low engagement content, I'd much rather have SE give us back the money we're spending on their game in both new, less involved content and new, more involved content than just cut so much combat content, the finger has to be pointed at SE for being greedy and not funding their cashcow enough.

[Vahlnir]

Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat

You are slightly incorrect here. Some CEs (basically, the only fun "Fates" in the place to begin with lol) require completing certain Fates before they can spawn, and a couple of which need to be triggered manually by talking to an NPC.

[Lord_Umbra]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

Except Eureka was noted by devs as being more popular than they though it would be with only Pagos being the real downer, Bozja also still has mass participation I've had no problems getting CLL or DR runs & most SFs are still filled constantly even quite filled during off peak hours. Diadem is only real failure out 3 you mention other two did/are doing great.

If we could see Relic numbers for time when they were relevant you'd probably find more of the community have a Eureka/Bozja Relic then what did the Zodiac/Anima when they were relevant.

[Manuka]

Except Eureka was noted by devs as being more popular than they though it would be with only Pagos being the real downer, Bozja also still has mass participation I've had no problems getting CLL or DR runs & most SFs are still filled constantly even quite filled during off peak hours. Diadem is only real failure out 3 you mention other two did/are doing great.

If we could see Relic numbers for time when they were relevant you'd probably find more of the community have a Eureka/Bozja Relic then what did the Zodiac/Anima when they were relevant.

I'm not saying it wasn't decently populated back when it was relevant. But is it now? Recently I had to complete the Eureka story because they annoyingly locked a triple triad NPC behind it. During my week-long grind the most players I seen in the zone was around 26, the lowest was 3 and the average sat around 15 I'm estimating. The content is basically dead and it's only going to get worse because this content is never going to get updated or changed. At least with my hunt example, it would still provide a universal currency that could be spent on stuff that is still relevant, meaning people would still have an incentive to do the older relics. There will likely never be a reason to go back to Eureka because it's insulated from the rest of the content. Only way I can see them getting those numbers back up is by nerfing the content so hard you could 4-man BA. But even then it would only be a short-term gain that again would die off in time.

Which goes back to the point I was making, they keep putting so much resources into content that doesn't have lasting appeal/can't be updated or is left in a half-complete state and abandoned. The Firmament is an example of good-design, you have what's effectively a crafter and gather hub with a unique zone for them to collect specialized materials and earn experience and currency to buy collectables and consumables that will always be in-demand (dyes). And most importantly, its organized in such a way that come EW they can just add in 80-90 turn-ins and new rewards to keep it relevant at little resource cost. Compare that to Squadrons, what was the point of them? Right now they're just manual dispensers and have been made redundant thanks to Trusts. Why have have two systems that effectively do the same thing, just move the Squadrons to the Rising Stones and unify it with the Trust system.

As for Relic numbers, I'm not sure. The closest you could get to some census is from FFXIV Collect, and there it shows that complete ARR/HW Relics on average sit around %10~12, while complete Eureka Relics sit around ~%5 on average and Bozja is around %3~4. Granted Bozja is still current so might not be fair to compare.

[linayar]

I really love when people say just unsubscribe or when Yoshi P says hey you don’t have to play this game 24/7 you can unsubscribe and play something else. Yet, because of their horrible housing system, you literally cannot stay unsunbbed for more than 30 days if you want to keep your house lmao. It’s such a contradiction to that statement. So in regards to your “they stopped veteran rewards because they didn’t want people to have to subscribe for a long time to earn rewards”, yeah no. They still hold people to their sub because of housing.

Sorry, but housing is irrelevant. If you care enough about it to keep subscribing, then obviously it's worth your money.

So, if you don't play the game enough to subscribe, but you'll subscribe anyway because of housing, that's your issue. Get an apartment/FC room and let someone who actually wants to log in every month get a chance at a house.

Either way, I'm not dictating what you will spend your money on, but if it's because of housing, then that's your decision to make, so live with the consequence of that decision.

As for veteran rewards though i don’t think that’s even the reason they gave. Pretty sure they said it’s because they couldn’t figure out what to actually give us as veteran rewards anymore(which is pretty funny because they can come up with mogstation items perfectly fine hm?).

I could be wrong, but the Online Store is exactly why I don't think lack of idea is the reason.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Sorry, but housing is irrelevant. If you care enough about it to keep subscribing, then obviously it's worth your money.

So, if you don't play the game enough to subscribe, but you'll subscribe anyway because of housing, that's your issue. Get an apartment/FC room and let someone who actually wants to log in every month get a chance at a house.

Either way, I'm not dictating what you will spend your money on, but if it's because of housing, then that's your decision to make, so live with the consequence of that decision.

I could be wrong, but the Online Store is exactly why I don't think lack of idea is the reason.

It’s the reason they gave so unless they’re lying, which i wouldn’t put past them.... In regards to your housing comment, my point is the housing system completely contradicts their statement of not wanting to make players have ties to the game and feel forced to sub. Someones statement of them not wanting veteran rewards to keep people subbing is a contradiction as well. Also “housing is irrelevant” Incredibly subjective. By that logic i could say firmament is irrelevant because it was created to implement ishgard housing.

[linayar]

It’s the reason they gave so unless they’re lying, which i wouldn’t put past them.... In regards to your housing comment, my point is the housing system completely contradicts their statement of not wanting to make players have ties to the game and feel forced to sub. Someones statement of them not wanting veteran rewards to keep people subbing is a contradiction as well. Also “housing is irrelevant” Incredibly subjective. By that logic i could say firmament is irrelevant because it was created to implement ishgard housing.

Housing is a special case because of scarcity. Keeping a house is not content. Yoshida's statement on playing something else is not contradicted by the special situation with housing.

In fact, does he even say unsubscribe or just say play something else? You can keep your subscription but still spend more time on other games. Again, only you can decide what is worth your subscription.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Housing is a special case because of scarcity. Keeping a house is not content. Yoshida's statement on playing something else is not contradicted by the special situation with housing.

In fact, does he even say unsubscribe or just say play something else? You can keep your subscription but still spend more time on other games. Again, only you can decide what is worth your subscription.

Keeping a house is content what? Housing is content. They literally release housing items and gardening as content. You literally cannot plant a lot of things without a house. Submarines and voyages are locked behind houses aka content. What kind of wack logic...

[linayar]

Keeping a house is content what? Housing is content. They literally release housing items and gardening as content. You literally cannot plant a lot of things without a house. Submarines and voyages are locked behind houses aka content. What kind of wack logic...

Subscribing just to enter a house every 45 days so you can keep the house is not content.

If you have a purpose for the house, then great, that's content and more reason to subscribe, and that doesn't contradict Yoshida's statement. If you have no reason to subscribe but just want to enter a house, that's on you.

[ZedxKayn]

Subscribing just to enter a house every 45 days so you can keep the house is not content.

If you have a purpose for the house, then great, that's content and more reason to subscribe, and that doesn't contradict Yoshida's statement. If you have no reason to subscribe but just want to enter a house, that's on you.

Why did you bring up mount rewards in WoW then? Was it not to point out an incentive that is basically just a "fear of missing out", which is why people stay subbed for their houses too?
They're the same thing, except missing a mount isn't going to potentially lock you out of content.