Fix Housing Megathread

[Jojoya]

IMO the entire mechanic should be separate from housing to begin with. Like run it through the BTN guild and allow us a public garden that we can rent a space at.

It's a decent idea but we'd run into the same problem we have with the wards. What happens where there is no public space left to rent, and some players are renting the space but not using it under the pretext of "I want to make sure I'll have access if I decide I want it later"?

Much better if they had moved gardening into Island Sanctuary altogether, though I guess that's not happening since YoshiP is insistent the content has no competitive aspect and the MB is one of the few competitive features in the game.

[MilkieTea]

It's a decent idea but we'd run into the same problem we have with the wards. What happens where there is no public space left to rent, and some players are renting the space but not using it under the pretext of "I want to make sure I'll have access if I decide I want it later"?

Much better if they had moved gardening into Island Sanctuary altogether, though I guess that's not happening since YoshiP is insistent the content has no competitive aspect and the MB is one of the few competitive features in the game.

Perhaps they can figure out a way to "instance" the garden? A single "plot" at like, the BTN guild, but it's open to everyone?

[Almagnus1]

It's a decent idea but we'd run into the same problem we have with the wards. What happens where there is no public space left to rent, and some players are renting the space but not using it under the pretext of "I want to make sure I'll have access if I decide I want it later"?

Much better if they had moved gardening into Island Sanctuary altogether, though I guess that's not happening since YoshiP is insistent the content has no competitive aspect and the MB is one of the few competitive features in the game.

If you lock down the outdoor space to a small number of decorations (assuming those are even allowed in the space) and give everyone like 2-3 garden plots, then it's possible to use the LotRO ward replication based on demand until you've either satisfied demand or hit the technical limit for the space. That is, assuming that the server data for each player is small enough and the UI is designed with infinite scaling in mind (or at least scaling up to at least 10k different players). That way Yoshi-P's desire to have a community is satisfied, players are able to create their own unique space with the decorations, and it's light enough on the server load that it's not an issue to have the area programmatically generated by demand.

That's one of the problems with houses... there's too much data As an FYI, the average LotRO house had maybe 30-40 decorations AT MOST in predefined hooks, so it was a lot easier to generate additional wards as you needed as there was a lot less data that needed to be stored. Now compare this with how many decorations are in the average FFXIV house and also needing to store the location, rotation, and scaling information for each decoration... and there's just a lot more data involved.

[Jojoya]

If you lock down the outdoor space to a small number of decorations (assuming those are even allowed in the space) and give everyone like 2-3 garden plots, then it's possible to use the LotRO ward replication based on demand until you've either satisfied demand or hit the technical limit for the space. That is, assuming that the server data for each player is small enough and the UI is designed with infinite scaling in mind (or at least scaling up to at least 10k different players). That way Yoshi-P's desire to have a community is satisfied, players are able to create their own unique space with the decorations, and it's light enough on the server load that it's not an issue to have the area programmatically generated by demand.

That's one of the problems with houses... there's too much data As an FYI, the average LotRO house had maybe 30-40 decorations AT MOST in predefined hooks, so it was a lot easier to generate additional wards as you needed as there was a lot less data that needed to be stored. Now compare this with how many decorations are in the average FFXIV house and also needing to store the location, rotation, and scaling information for each decoration... and there's just a lot more data involved.

It would be nice if they would replicate the LotRO Neighborhood expansion system for wards in general. It would solve the problem neatly without some worlds ending up with empty wards while other worlds are bursting to the seams.

I don't think too much data is the problem when I compare it to other MMO housing. ESO, which also supports consoles so it's not a PS4/Xbox issue, allows each character to own every house location in the game and some of those locations allow up to 800 items to be placed the last I checked. ESO might not have the same number of active subscribers (B2P with subscription optional to get extras) but they do have a like or slightly higher number of total active players from the estimates I see (estimated to be around a million logging in daily).

I had 11 active Dimensions at the same time in RIFT (meaning anyone could go visit them same day even if I wasn't online, it was also possible to have inactive Dimension keys not in use) ranging from 400 to 2000 items placed. I was pretty much a housing noob compared to the serious Dimension addicts who had far more active Dimensions at max item limits than I did. There was never a point (at least while I was playing) where Trion told players "you can't get more Dimensions because we're running out of memory".

The solutions are out there. SE needs to get on them.

[Almagnus1]

It would be nice if they would replicate the LotRO Neighborhood expansion system for wards in general. It would solve the problem neatly without some worlds ending up with empty wards while other worlds are bursting to the seams.

I don't think too much data is the problem when I compare it to other MMO housing. ESO, which also supports consoles so it's not a PS4/Xbox issue, allows each character to own every house location in the game and some of those locations allow up to 800 items to be placed the last I checked. ESO might not have the same number of active subscribers (B2P with subscription optional to get extras) but they do have a like or slightly higher number of total active players from the estimates I see (estimated to be around a million logging in daily).

I had 11 active Dimensions at the same time in RIFT (meaning anyone could go visit them same day even if I wasn't online, it was also possible to have inactive Dimension keys not in use) ranging from 400 to 2000 items placed. I was pretty much a housing noob compared to the serious Dimension addicts who had far more active Dimensions at max item limits than I did. There was never a point (at least while I was playing) where Trion told players "you can't get more Dimensions because we're running out of memory".

The solutions are out there. SE needs to get on them.

A lot of it depends on how SE implemented the wards... if the contents of all items placed within all houses within a ward are low, then it's possible to dynamically load (and unload) the wards. However, if you have a lot of data that needs to be shown for each house, then you've got to plan on the wards always being in memory. There's a threshold where you can literally exceed some of the internal computer bus bandwidth (like SATA or NVME bus bandwidth for example) if you have too much data that needs to be pushed to memory so it can be used to create the ward in memory and shared with the player(s). That's why I'm hesitant to push the idea as a great solution for FFXIV... I don't know enough of the technical side of things to know if it's even a good idea technically speaking.

Yes, it would be amazing feature to have added to FFXIV, but I don't want it added at the expense of making everyone else's lives garbage because it introduced a lot of lag.

[Catstab]

IMO the entire mechanic should be separate from housing to begin with. Like run it through the BTN guild and allow us a public garden that we can rent a space at.

This is almost surely coming with Island Sanctuary. Housing gardens will likely remain unchanged.

[Seleni]

It would be nice if they would replicate the LotRO Neighborhood expansion system for wards in general. It would solve the problem neatly without some worlds ending up with empty wards while other worlds are bursting to the seams.

I don't think too much data is the problem when I compare it to other MMO housing. ESO, which also supports consoles so it's not a PS4/Xbox issue, allows each character to own every house location in the game and some of those locations allow up to 800 items to be placed the last I checked. ESO might not have the same number of active subscribers (B2P with subscription optional to get extras) but they do have a like or slightly higher number of total active players from the estimates I see (estimated to be around a million logging in daily).

I had 11 active Dimensions at the same time in RIFT (meaning anyone could go visit them same day even if I wasn't online, it was also possible to have inactive Dimension keys not in use) ranging from 400 to 2000 items placed. I was pretty much a housing noob compared to the serious Dimension addicts who had far more active Dimensions at max item limits than I did. There was never a point (at least while I was playing) where Trion told players "you can't get more Dimensions because we're running out of memory".

The solutions are out there. SE needs to get on them.

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

[Besame]

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

[Catstab]

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

We have instanced housing, too, apartments. Wasn't SWTOR housing only an interior? So it's exactly the same.

[Seleni]

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

Didn’t the entire SWTOR turn semi-free to play? I bought the game when it first came but quit after finishing 2 characters story. (Just general MMO burn-out) A quick search shows their housing (stronghold?) is purchasable with cartel coins in addition to to in-game currency. So like Rift, you can buy housing with real world money. But wow (no pun intended) it’s down to 5 servers….

I’ve no idea about Wild Star. I could not find much info about housing in the game.