Fix Housing Megathread

[Seleni]

It would be nice if they would replicate the LotRO Neighborhood expansion system for wards in general. It would solve the problem neatly without some worlds ending up with empty wards while other worlds are bursting to the seams.

I don't think too much data is the problem when I compare it to other MMO housing. ESO, which also supports consoles so it's not a PS4/Xbox issue, allows each character to own every house location in the game and some of those locations allow up to 800 items to be placed the last I checked. ESO might not have the same number of active subscribers (B2P with subscription optional to get extras) but they do have a like or slightly higher number of total active players from the estimates I see (estimated to be around a million logging in daily).

I had 11 active Dimensions at the same time in RIFT (meaning anyone could go visit them same day even if I wasn't online, it was also possible to have inactive Dimension keys not in use) ranging from 400 to 2000 items placed. I was pretty much a housing noob compared to the serious Dimension addicts who had far more active Dimensions at max item limits than I did. There was never a point (at least while I was playing) where Trion told players "you can't get more Dimensions because we're running out of memory".

The solutions are out there. SE needs to get on them.

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

[Besame]

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

[Catstab]

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

We have instanced housing, too, apartments. Wasn't SWTOR housing only an interior? So it's exactly the same.

[Besame]

We have instanced housing, too, apartments. Wasn't SWTOR housing only an interior? So it's exactly the same.

SWtOR and WS were a combination that included outside and inside so you were able to have 4x different fortresses like Tatooine, etc. and decorate the whole area but it belonged to just you. no neighborhoods.. When ppl visited, we either used a planet area board or friend's list. Wild Star was the best housing I have ever been involved with. If you payed a monthly sub with both games like here, the housing was included. The CartHELL Marketas I called it hehe, was just extra fluff or cost for non sub players.

[Seleni]

I played SWtOR for 5 yrs and Wild Star for about 9 months after I did the beta. Both had instanced housing included in the monthly sub fee which was comparable with other MMOS.

Didn’t the entire SWTOR turn semi-free to play? I bought the game when it first came but quit after finishing 2 characters story. (Just general MMO burn-out) A quick search shows their housing (stronghold?) is purchasable with cartel coins in addition to to in-game currency. So like Rift, you can buy housing with real world money. But wow (no pun intended) it’s down to 5 servers….

I’ve no idea about Wild Star. I could not find much info about housing in the game.

[Jojoya]

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

You don't have to pay extra to get your first housing in those games, though, and their cash shops are subsidizing a lot more than just housing since they have no required subscription (RIFT is F2P, ESO is B2P).

I would be fine with an extra real money fee for housing if it was to pay for extra housing allowances above and beyond what's normally allotted to an account, but not if it was the only way for someone to get their first house. A subscription is already required to get that initial housing - there's your subsidization that should be providing for every player.

[Seleni]

You don't have to pay extra to get your first housing in those games, though, and their cash shops are subsidizing a lot more than just housing since they have no required subscription (RIFT is F2P, ESO is B2P).

I would be fine with an extra real money fee for housing if it was to pay for extra housing allowances above and beyond what's normally allotted to an account, but not if it was the only way for someone to get their first house. A subscription is already required to get that initial housing - there's your subsidization that should be providing for every player.

The existing apartments should count as that initial housing.

I wonder if it’d be feasible for SE create a separate instanced personal housing area that:

- Has entrance at Gold Saucer. (So portals to major cities)
- Purchasable/leasable either through Online Store/MogStation. Maybe allow MGP as a leasing option if they’d rather not have it be exclusively through real money.
- Have both exterior and interior of a small house with fixed surroundings. Maybe allow buyers to choose from a set of different themes like wooded, lakeside, desert, beach front, etc.
- Allows gardening patch without cross-breeding (so they don’t have to re-do cross-breeding mechanism). Instead, give residents monthly courtesy tokens that can be used to purchase otherwise cross-breed only produce from a special vendor. They can make the items non-marketplace trade-able so the it doesn’t become an advantage over other players.

Benefit over small house:
- Does not get demolished until/unless the character is deleted.
- Purchasable as soon as Gold Saucer is unlocked.

Allowing real money purchase should help fund this housing area so it can expand more easily to accommodate more players if demand is there. And if it’s well-received it can divert some players from ward housing, so hopefully it’d decrease competition for wards a bit too.

[Jojoya]

The existing apartments should count as that initial housing.

While I don't completely disagree that may be the better approach if SE is going to stick with the ward system and not offer enhanced instanced housing, there's a pretty big problem with things as they currently are.

The game doesn't focus housing around apartments with houses being an extra. It focuses housing around houses while apartments don't even get a nod unless the player actually goes out of their way to talk to the Resident Caretaker and read through all the Housing Inquiry topics (which almost no one does). Apartments are only discussed in the 9th topic out of 16 and it doesn't even mention that apartments are not subject to demolition.

When you enter a housing district, what's the first thing you see? Houses (you also can see some of the merchant stalls in Goblet and Shirogane). Can you easily pick out something recognizable as a possible apartment building from the entrances? Nope. You can see the top of the towers for each of the apartment buildings if you know where to look but you're not going to go "Hey, I bet that's an apartment building" based on what little you can see.

The game isn't trying to get you interested in buying an apartment. It wants you to buy a house.

Apartments are nothing but an afterthought, not something to be sought. That's fair enough since they literally were an afterthought and not part of the original housing plan. Apartments didn't exist until mid-Heavensward even though we had houses back in ARR.

They were placed in an out of the way location, not in a position of prominence where they would gain attention. There's room in Lavender Beds and Goblet to place the buildings at the entrance (Mist would have been a problem) and SE could have swapped the location of the merchant stalls and apartment building when designing Shirogane so the first thing you see is the apartment building instead of the merchant buildings. It's confusing why SE didn't do that if the point was to get players to pick apartments and reduce the demand for houses.

If SE wants apartments to be the default housing players seek out first before trying to get a house, they need to revamp how players are introduced to housing in general and then add in an introduction to apartments specifically. They need to make it exciting to have an apartment.

Completely change the "Where the Heart Is" quests. Currently it's all about house plots and how wonderful they are and how the player will want one too - zero mention of an apartment anywhere in the quest. Instead, have the player talk to the NPC outside the wards as they currently do but instead of having the player talk to the other gatekeeper or walk into the boundary to be at a ward entrance, have the quest NPC send the player to the path leading to the apartment building so that's the first thing they see once in the ward. That will encourage the player to investigate it.

Move the GC personnel that continue the quest next to the apartment building entrance to further entice the player to enter. Have the NPC talk about how the city states added apartment housing to attract more adventures to the Grand Companies. Suggest that the player go inside the apartment building and talk to the Apartment Caretaker to learn more. Then mention that Free Companies and veteran adventurers may even get a chance to purchase one of the limited house plots available (ie make it clear that not every player will get one). The player can then go talk to the Apartment Caretaker or look around the ward before returning to the original quest NPC.

I would also suggest lowering the GC rank required for an apartment or FC private chambers to Third Sergeant while keeping the house requirement at 2nd Lieutenant. With the player qualifying for an apartment sooner, they're more likely to get one. When the requirement is the same, players will naturally hold out for the better option.

[Seleni]

For truly free housing, there’s always the inn room. It’s not customizable but it’s still a place to yourself for some peace and quiet. I used it for crafting before I could get an apartment. (2 players painting the floor continuously was the final straw for me to start avoiding crafting near city summoning bells. That was before I found out much later that you could mute other players effect sounds. But to this day I still tend to craft indoors.)

I agree that they need to advertise apartments better. Outside blogs did a better job advertising apartments for them. But I don’t think lowering of GC requirement is going to help much. You can save up 500k much more easily than 3 millions, but many people still opted to join the house-hunting savage without bothering with apartments.

[Jojoya]

I agree that they need to advertise apartments better. Outside blogs did a better job advertising apartments for them. But I don’t think lowering of GC requirement is going to help much. You can save up 500k much more easily than 3 millions, but many people still opted to join the house-hunting savage without bothering with apartments.

Of course they're going to go straight to house hunting when the game plays up how wonderful houses are but doesn't mention apartments. When the only housing other players want to talk about is a house because they're "good" but not about apartments because they're "bad".

I'm not expecting every player to go "hey, apartments are perfect, I don't want a house after all" but making apartments accessible faster than houses can lead to more satisfaction with apartments. Dropping GC rank needed for apartments and FC private champers would help create a gap the player can use to explore the features apartments offer before they decide if they want to spend another 3+ million to get a house.

Best case scenario is that demand for houses decreases as some players decide that apartments offer all they really need. Worst case scenario is that demand remains unchanged from what it is now.

Of course, for me this is dependent on whether SE is going to remain stubborn and stick with the ward system as is or if they're going to fix the housing system so every player that wants a house is able to get one. I'd still rather see everyone with a house or at the very least apartments with house-size interiors to choose from.

(Also, an inn room isn't housing any more than the WoW Garrisons are housing. Housing needs to be customizable by the player. We're not getting it just to have a bed to log out on.)