Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[SturmChurro]

I'd say the majority of players in this game are underperforming on the regular. It's just that the majority of content, until you get to extremes or high end duties, can be completed anyway, for the most part. Mechanics that require some actual thinking are usually where you find the most party wipes.

[linayar]

I'd say the majority of players in this game are underperforming on the regular. It's just that the majority of content, until you get to extremes or high end duties, can be completed anyway, for the most part. Mechanics that require some actual thinking are usually where you find the most party wipes.

"majority of players...underperforming on the regular"

"majority of content...can be completed anyway"

To me, when you compare and contrast these two statements, it just becomes a meaningless metric if we want to insist on using "underperforming" in this context.

[SturmChurro]

"majority of players...underperforming on the regular"

"majority of content...can be completed anyway"

To me, when you compare and contrast these two statements, it just becomes a meaningless metric if we want to insist on using "underperforming" in this context.

I mean, I could complete dungeons with missing players, heck even if it takes an hour you can complete a dungeon. Completing content doesn't mean a player has completed it and performed well. "Underperforming" is in regards to 'performance'... Such as: using AoE properly (or at all), their skillset more properly - instead of just random keys, properly holding aggro, more efficiently healing; not letting players die, etc. It's pretty self explanatory.

[linayar]

I mean, I could complete dungeons with missing players, heck even if it takes an hour you can complete a dungeon. Completing content doesn't mean a player has completed it and performed well. "Underperforming" is in regards to 'performance'... Such as: using AoE properly (or at all), their skillset - instead of just random keys, properly holding aggro, more efficiently healing; not letting players die, etc. It's pretty self explanatory.

Well, yeah, it is pretty self-explanatory: Performance is based on what you are trying to accomplish, and what you're trying to accomplish is clearing the content, especially when the game doesn't reward you for doing anything extra to clearing the content. How you play is irrelevant as long as you can clear the content.

[SturmChurro]

Well, yeah, it is pretty self-explanatory: Performance is based on what you are trying to accomplish, and what you're trying to accomplish is clearing the content, especially when the game doesn't reward you for doing anything extra to clearing the content. How you play is irrelevant as long as you can clear the content.

I'd appreciate if players respected each other's time. By performing 'well', everyone benefits. We could complete a dungeon in an hour, but is that really something to strive for?

For example, in school I could pass a class with a D (And I did), but is that well and good, or do teachers insist you "perform" better? Is a "D" not frowned upon?

[Awha]

Well, yeah, it is pretty self-explanatory: Performance is based on what you are trying to accomplish, and what you're trying to accomplish is clearing the content, especially when the game doesn't reward you for doing anything extra to clearing the content. How you play is irrelevant as long as you can clear the content.

It depends on the person, sure the game may not reward you but it is a team game people should respect the time of others in the group by having a basic understand how to play their role. I have been in group where as a tank I have d/out damaged a SAM. Sure we cleared the content but objectively they failed their role as a damage dealer. Just like if a tank cannot hold aggro or a healer that does heal objectively fails at their role.

Or are we going to say that irrelevant cause they content was cleared? Also I have cleared content with tanks that refuse to hold aggro is it really safe to say they were competent players / did not under perform.

[Doozer]

I mean, I could complete dungeons with missing players, heck even if it takes an hour you can complete a dungeon. Completing content doesn't mean a player has completed it and performed well. "Underperforming" is in regards to 'performance'... Such as: using AoE properly (or at all), their skillset more properly - instead of just random keys, properly holding aggro, more efficiently healing; not letting players die, etc. It's pretty self explanatory.

Except whether you were asleep at the wheel the whole time or going full Sweaty, the reward is still the same: you completed the duty, maybe got loot, some tomes, etc.

You can rant and rave about "performing well" in a dungeon or something all you want, but past a certain point it's just wasted energy. Why tire out my already crappy joints just so I can "perform well"? It doesn't even mean you'll get more commendations. You don't need to play at Savage/Ultimate level in standard content. You can, but you don't need to, most people don't expect you to, and it has very little impact.

You should be more worked up about people getting hard carried through Ultimate and waving around weapons and titles, but for some reason you seem more interested in 'casual' content performance. Hm.

[SturmChurro]

Except whether you were asleep at the wheel the whole time or going full Sweaty, the reward is still the same: you completed the duty, maybe got loot, some tomes, etc.

You can rant and rave about "performing well" in a dungeon or something all you want, but past a certain point it's just wasted energy. Why tire out my already crappy joints just so I can "perform well"? It doesn't even mean you'll get more commendations. You don't need to play at Savage/Ultimate level in standard content. You can, but you don't need to, most people don't expect you to, and it has very little impact.

You should be more worked up about people getting hard carried through Ultimate and waving around weapons and titles, but for some reason you seem more interested in 'casual' content performance. Hm.

Odd. I would have thought you would agree with my takes on this subject, considering this quote from the TfDF thread. Perhaps I read it wrong?

It's not the only time they died, they were terrible, and it's not being "harsh" to expect people to know how to play, especially in casual content. It's not hard. If they've done it that many times, they should be able to do the mechanics in their sleep by now. If they're too burnt out or "zoning out", maybe they should go do something else and stop slowing the rest of us down.

I don't know about you, but I'm very familiar with people lazily doing content because they know they'll get carried through it. This was one of those times. You don't know the whole story, so save your "judging by"s for someone else. Just because I was recalling a story from a few days ago and didn't give you every single detail so you could make a judgment call on whether I'm being a big meanie or not, that doesn't mean that's all that happened. This person isn't on trial, I'm just telling a story. Funny that people always come out to defend bad and lazy players.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about people showing off high end titles or weapons. I don't even know what the titles are or what the weapons look like. For that matter, I don't do high end content - not even extremes. I haven't even done an extreme since Hades. Not that I see the relevance here.

It's not like it is difficult for a player to play "well, rather "passably", all it takes is them pressing a key in a different order, and if they are really having trouble... combos even light up!

[KageTokage]

These days, I tend to just ask around for what the HP milestones on each extreme/savage fight are so I know sooner then later whether or not a PF group is worth sticking with.

It's just a pity there isn't any way for people to actually know if they're underperforming short of someone calling them out on it using ACT or some other third party program.

[Liam_Harper]

It's just a pity there isn't any way for people to actually know if they're underperforming short of someone calling them out on it using ACT or some other third party program.

Devs: We want you to relax and not worry about your performance, so we've hidden, banned and taken away most tools to evaluate that so you can have fun!

Also Devs: Oh btw, your parties have full right to silently boot you for performance at any time and endgame bosses will enrage and wipe your entire team if you aren't good enough so you'll never beat them and it'll be all your fault. Enjoy!