MSQ

[linayar]

Your fears are absolutely worst case scenarios, good writers won't suddenly become bad writers because a subset of player will not be required to speed through the MSQ anymore.

Good writers can be hampered by company needs. I can only argue based on my MMO experience and, surprise surprise, the MMO story that I enjoy the most is mandatory.

Source needed.

People complaining about lack of endgame now. I'm sure you can find them yourself.

Bet you people who say the MSQ is fine as is and SE won't change anything also said that before the ARR changes were announced.

Trimming a measly 13% of ARR's fat changes basically nothing.

Well, I'm fine with trimming and stuff. Whether it's needed is up to them.

It literally doesn't affect you. Like, at all. Zero.

It could affect me in the future if MSQ is now considered optional content. MMORPG is a long-term investment. I'm not going to agree just because it doesn't affect me now.

[ZedxKayn]

People complaining about lack of endgame now. I'm sure you can find them yourself.

If you can see complaints in spaces dedicated to FFXIV, they're most likely still playing or come back regularly for raiding.
There is still a lot more time to be spent doing endgame content that MSQ content. Prog and reclears take time.
And MSQ being optional wouldn't remove it from the game, it would change literally nothing aside not forcing people who don't want to read a point and click visual novel to do so.
As Alaray said, the MSQ offers no fun gameplay, as someone who spent over 8k hours on the game since mid-5.0 without giving a damn about the MSQ, there is still plenty of enjoyable things to do that could keep MMO enthusiasts who enjoy crafting, or housing, or raiding, or glamour, or leveling, or achievement hunting, or in general just doing stuff with their friends, roped in.

The only reason you don't hear people complain about FFXIV's MSQ much is because most people who are unhappy with it got filtered and don't frequent XIV communities, but it's a recurrent criticism in communities centered around MMORPGs as a genre.

[linayar]

If you can see complaints in spaces dedicated to FFXIV, they're most likely still playing or come back regularly for raiding.
There is still a lot more time to be spent doing endgame content that MSQ content. Prog and reclears take time.
And MSQ being optional wouldn't remove it from the game, it would change literally nothing aside not forcing people who don't want to read a point and click visual novel to do so.
As Alaray said, the MSQ offers no fun gameplay, as someone who spent over 8k hours on the game since mid-5.0 without giving a damn about the MSQ, there is still plenty of enjoyable things to do that could keep MMO enthusiasts who enjoy crafting, or housing, or raiding, or glamour, or leveling, or achievement hunting, or in general just doing stuff with their friends, roped in.

The only reason you don't hear people complain about FFXIV's MSQ much is because most people who are unhappy with it got filtered and don't frequent XIV communities, but it's a recurrent criticism in communities centered around MMORPGs as a genre.

I'm not saying it would be removed from the game, but the focus will certainly change for something that now is not the main content. That's inevitable. And the story itself will change because you don't need it to unlock content. Again, it's not a risk I'm willing to take. It's probably the one change I will never agree to other than removing queueable content.

I'm not saying there are no complainers. I'm saying if they are still choosing to play despite that, then it is what it is. If they speed through the MSQ then spend the rest of their time progging, then there is no reason to make it optional. Just let them speed through it once. That said, only the devs can decide if their complaint holds merit in terms of affecting the business. I'm arguing simply as a player.

[Alaray]

It could affect me in the future if MSQ is now considered optional content. MMORPG is a long-term investment. I'm not going to agree just because it doesn't affect me now.

It's already optional. Me skipping it has no bearing on your enjoyment, and someone purchasing a skip has no bearing on your enjoyment. The position of "but it might change the story" doesn't hold water to me, since the story changes every patch and every expansion and every time a new Main Scenario writer comes along. It'll change, anyway. That, and MSQ content is the primary driving foundation for how the team develops content in XIV, which puts it in, likely, the safest spot relative to the rest of the content involved in the game. But if we're talking about content quality going forward, that requires SE proper to actually care about this game and not just Creative Unit 3. Since I do, sincerely, believe the development team want to do the best they can by the playerbase.

And while MSQ is as integral to the game's identity as it is, again, my point is: It's not the only reason why players pick up the game, and it's asinine for new players to be told that -- before they are allowed to experience the MMO part of this RPG -- they have to slog through 80+ hours of single player story content, that offers 0 value to that player, just because. This game is not in the visual novel genre. It is an MMORPG, people tend to expect to be allowed to play with their friends through the content of the game, which the MSQ actively negates. Those who want to do MSQ still can. Those who take, for example, an optional free Story Skim or Story Skip still have access to New Game+ if they decide they want to go back to see it. Functionally, one does not impact the other.

I understand forcing that commitment translates into subscription time for the period of actually doing it, and translates into story skips and job boost purchases, though; I still find it weird that this playerbase will point to those as if being taken advantage of by a company that created a problem that mountainous in the first place is the Good result instead of asking for that company to do better.

That all, and, eventually the story (if it hasn't already) will become a massive roadblock to more players who might be interested in the game due to seeing the Ultimate or Savage content. Or the Gathering and Crafting content. Or who saw the housing content, or who were excited to do things like treasure maps and hunts and so on. Which means, less new players. And while Shadowbringers did have a boom, I still feel like that surge would've been larger without all the arbitrary gates that cost an extra fee to get past if you have no interest in running amok in the ARR story line for 50+ levels spamming whatever terrible frankensteined Job Kit SE decided to give you. (And, additionally speaking -- if you were interested in, say, Astrologian you need to get to level 50+ just to get to level 30).

And, for current players, having the option to Skip the MSQ on an Alt should just be baseline.

[linayar]

It's already optional. Me skipping it has no bearing on your enjoyment, and someone purchasing a skip has no bearing on your enjoyment.

It's not optional. You didn't buy a mere skip. You bought an auto-complete. You not caring about the story, skipping/speeding through it, is not my concern.

[Alaray]

It's not optional. You didn't buy a mere skip. You bought an auto-complete. You not caring about the story, skipping/speeding through it, is not my concern.

An auto-complete is a skip. Thank you for the insightful response.

[linayar]

An auto-complete is a skip. Thank you for the insightful response.

It's a skip for your experience of the story, not a skip to the game. I'm not concerned about other player's preference in the story.

IThe position of "but it might change the story" doesn't hold water to me

Just FYI, I'm voicing my opinion in case the devs might see it, not necessarily to change someone else's opinion.

since the story changes every patch and every expansion and every time a new Main Scenario writer comes along. It'll change, anyway.

Change in the actual story is not my concern either.

That, and MSQ content is the primary driving foundation for how the team develops content in XIV, which puts it in, likely, the safest spot relative to the rest of the content involved in the game.

It is now, but not when you make it optional.

it's asinine for new players to be told that -- before they are allowed to experience the MMO part of this RPG -- they have to slog through 80+ hours of single player story content, that offers 0 value to that player, just because. This game is not in the visual novel genre. It is an MMORPG, people tend to expect to be allowed to play with their friends through the content of the game, which the MSQ actively negates. Those who want to do MSQ still can. Those who take, for example, an optional free Story Skim or Story Skip still have access to New Game+ if they decide they want to go back to see it. Functionally, one does not impact the other.

Well, I already disagree with that. The moment the players can see other players, they are already experiencing the MMO part. They can socialize with other players, they can start doing FATEs together if they want. They can start running dungeons at level 15. If they don't find value in any of it, that's on them, but I certainly did my first time playing.

I understand forcing that commitment translates into subscription time for the period of actually doing it, and translates into story skips and job boost purchases, though; I still find it weird that this playerbase will point to those as if being taken advantage of by a company that created a problem that mountainous in the first place is the Good result instead of asking for that company to do better.

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't offer any boost. After all, they can now use the MSQ as part of the free trial.

That all, and, eventually the story (if it hasn't already) will become a massive roadblock to more players who might be interested in the game due to seeing the Ultimate or Savage content. Or the Gathering and Crafting content. Or who saw the housing content, or who were excited to do things like treasure maps and hunts and so on. Which means, less new players. And while Shadowbringers did have a boom, I still feel like that surge would've been larger without all the arbitrary gates that cost an extra fee to get past if you have no interest in running amok in the ARR story line for 50+ levels spamming whatever terrible frankensteined Job Kit SE decided to give you. (And, additionally speaking -- if you were interested in, say, Astrologian you need to get to level 50+ just to get to level 30).

And, for current players, having the option to Skip the MSQ on an Alt should just be baseline.

I think seeing most of the game as a roadblock is a player issue. I certainly didn't, but SE will decide if they think it is. For now, considering they're being very conservative about changing the ARR MSQ, I'm guessing they see it the same way as I do, for now at least.

[Alaray]

It is now, but not when you make it optional.

Well, I already disagree with that. The moment the players can see other players, they are already experiencing the MMO part. They can socialize with other players, they can start doing FATEs together if they want. They can start running dungeons at level 15. If they don't find value in any of it, that's on them, but I certainly did my first time playing.

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't offer any boost. After all, they can now use the MSQ as part of the free trial.

I think seeing most of the game as a roadblock is a player issue. I certainly didn't, but SE will decide if they think it is. For now, considering they're being very conservative about changing the ARR MSQ, I'm guessing they see it the same way as I do, for now at least.

It's already optional for a fee. So that's a moot point. The fee being attached doesn't really make it any less optional, it just makes it profitable. I just don't think there should be a fee.

Seeing other players, just seeing them, misses the point of the genre pretty hard. Forming communities, finding friends, experiencing things with the friends who brought you along are more integral MMO experiences. AFK-able solo duties, a story someone won't necessarily care about or feel invested in, ultimately get in the way of doing things such as: dungeon grinding, experiencing various trials and bosses, completing normal raids, or doing higher end content if that's the reason why someone wanted to skip the 80+ hours of story. There's a lot of concerns and criticisms I have, in general, but being allowed to skip the story isn't going to suddenly make them stop writing it. Unless everyone skipped it and nobody cared, which isn't the case considering how combative people can be over it.

If anything, it's a massive QOL for a lot of people and SE could, ironically, have more freedom with the MSQ since they wouldn't have to consider the length of it as it stands potentially being a put off for future players. Or having to prune it down later on, like they did with ARR.

MSQ also, isn't, "Most of the game" for a lot of people. Assuming that to be the case is a pretty big misunderstanding of a lot of players in this game to begin with. It might be for you, but it absolutely is not for me. Otherwise I'd only sub briefly to do it and stop right after, like Towelliee.

[linayar]

It's already optional for a fee. So that's a moot point. The fee being attached doesn't really make it any less optional, it just makes it profitable. I just don't think there should be a fee.

Ok, when I think of MSQ being optional, I'm thinking MSQ does not need to be completed in order to do other things. For example, you can go to Crystarium without doing MSQ. You can run Final Steps of Faith without doing MSQ. You can then choose to go back to do the MSQ if you want.

Paying to complete the MSQ does not make it optional in my mind. If you want a free MSQ boost with your game purchase, I have no disagreement on that. That's up to SE's business decision.

[Alaray]

Ok, when I think of MSQ being optional, I'm thinking MSQ does not need to be completed in order to do other things. For example, you can go to Crystarium without doing MSQ. You can run Final Steps of Faith without doing MSQ. You can then choose to go back to do the MSQ if you want.

Paying to complete the MSQ does not make it optional in my mind. If you want a free MSQ boost with your game purchase, I have no disagreement on that. That's up to SE's business decision.

My position is:

When you hit start, and make a new character, you should receive a prompt which could be either: Experience an overview of the story so far (I believe Kingdom Hearts had something like this in one of the remixes), or "Skip" which would function, essentially, as a MSQ Skip from the Mogstation. With, still, the option to play through the game normally (as in, full MSQ). It'd just be up to the preference of the player starting to choose what they would want. And this comes, predominantly, from a place where: not everyone picks up XIV for the story content and, IMO, if you do not care about the story you'll only resent it as you're forced to crawl through it anyway.

I went through the MSQ since the story intrigued me enough since ARR, and I still do it once, and I'll usually suggest doing it at least one time if someone asks about it; but there's still value in providing the option. Especially when there's people who might not care now, but might do content they wanted to do and see the bosses/etc... and become curious and go back and do it of their own volition, where they'd appreciate it more.