MSQ

[KizuyaKatogami]

This thread is STILL going? I seriously doubt the MSQ formula is going to change. Arguing on the forums isn't going do anything, since SE caters to their JP players than NA/EU players at the end of the day.

Keep going though; I want to see more pointless arguments. Good to read when bored. :P

So should we just accept that and not try at all to address that? Besides people are allowed to share their opinion even if it may not be heard by the company, sometimes people need to vent. But yeah the fact they really only cater to JP sucks and the fact they only really use twitter now to gauge reactions but no ones ever gonna call them out because SE is god

[DPZ2]

I blame the apparent dissatisfaction with the MSQ on the misperception that 'end game is the only game'.

"Everything that came before now is boring and a waste of time."
"Having to slog through nearly eight years of episodes is a waste of time, even if they're being binge-watched."

Hint: go watch a youtube summary of the 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 story lines. Purchase a story and job skip to arrive at current content. Run through the current content - it's a game, it has a story, the content was produced for you to go through it. THEN enjoy(?) the fact that you have so little actual 'current content' to enjoy that you complain. Again.

Rinse-and-repeat.

Or, better yet, go find a multi-player game that requires a minimum of story, with, oh, maybe one patch with new content in any given year. There are plenty to choose from.

I've been playing multi-player games off-and-on for about 35 years now, most with so little story-line that they easily become obsolete after you play them for a few months. And yes, EQ was one of them ... frustrating as heck, no discernible story line, lots of time spent wasting time for things to spawn, unfriendly groups of people who looked at you funny if you didn't somehow meet their ideals of a perfected meta, permadeath, loss of gear ... every bad MMO trope you can experience rolled into a video game.

[And no, the first ones didn't use graphics, and were little more than glorified versions of Adventure with multiple players ... but that particular community was small (less than 150 people) and tight, because everyone knew everyone else and there really wasn't a meta to perfect.]

[ZedxKayn]

the content was produced for you to go through it

Is this an argument to make ultimate and fishing log-completion mandatory I spy?

[DPZ2]

Is this an argument to make ultimate and fishing log-completion mandatory I spy?

Nice try. In context of the argument, specifically, MSQ content for current expansion.

[Tommara]

I blame the apparent dissatisfaction with the MSQ on the misperception that 'end game is the only game'.

"Everything that came before now is boring and a waste of time."
"Having to slog through nearly eight years of episodes is a waste of time, even if they're being binge-watched."

Hint: go watch a youtube summary of the 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 story lines. Purchase a story and job skip to arrive at current content. Run through the current content - it's a game, it has a story, the content was produced for you to go through it. THEN enjoy(?) the fact that you have so little actual 'current content' to enjoy that you complain. Again.

Rinse-and-repeat.

Or, better yet, go find a multi-player game that requires a minimum of story, with, oh, maybe one patch with new content in any given year. There are plenty to choose from.

I've been playing multi-player games off-and-on for about 35 years now, most with so little story-line that they easily become obsolete after you play them for a few months. And yes, EQ was one of them ... frustrating as heck, no discernible story line, lots of time spent wasting time for things to spawn, unfriendly groups of people who looked at you funny if you didn't somehow meet their ideals of a perfected meta, permadeath, loss of gear ... every bad MMO trope you can experience rolled into a video game.

[And no, the first ones didn't use graphics, and were little more than glorified versions of Adventure with multiple players ... but that particular community was small (less than 150 people) and tight, because everyone knew everyone else and there really wasn't a meta to perfect.]

This has gotten far off track from my opening post. In which I didn't suggest removing content nor do I condone paying to skip it. I could easily afford it, but being a clueless max level toon doesn't sit right with me.

I only suggested moving some quests that are labelled "MSQ" and moving them to side quests. There are approximately 80 MSQ level 50 ARR quests before being able to progress to Heavensward. Since I started playing FF14 long before Heavensward was released, I remember the reasons for it, which was a good faith attempt on the devs' part to have new content between expansions. I don't fault them for that at all. Having all those quests are a good thing.

I just don't think they should have been coded as "MSQ" and hence are mandatory. Those quests absolutely should remain in the game, not only for story, but to give lower level jobs something to do (if only the exp matched at least what comparable beast tribes give.)

The fact that you can pay to skip them is not a good solution. It's just a lazy money grab instead of fixing the root problem, which is to remove the MSQ label from most of those quests.

Edited Note: To be absolutely clear, those 80-ish level 50 quests are a good thing. The fact that they are labeled MSQ and hence mandatory, is not.

[MilkieTea]

Edited Note: To be absolutely clear, those 80-ish level 50 quests are a good thing. The fact that they are labeled MSQ and hence mandatory, is not.

The thing is, these quests are *part* of the main storyline. ALL post-expac quests are part of the main storyline. They continue the story of the expansion, and the only reason they're called Post-MSQ quests is because theyre inserted after the expac is released, rather than at the same time.

What would end up happening is you'd start teleported from Ul'Dah to ishgard, with no prior knowledge of *why* you're there, no way to know why you're persona non grata, until you figured out "oh, these *side quests* explain that?"

side quests are optional content because you don't need to know that information in order to enjoy the story as is.

Can you even give a list of the quests you *wouldn't* remove?

[Tommara]

Can you even give a list of the quests you *wouldn't* remove?

That would be a good question if there wasn't an option to pay to remove them all.

[Alaray]

My position's always been that MSQ shouldn't gate the game away in the manner it does, especially when most of it is a drag and, while it's an alright story, it's not going to shatter someone's world to miss it if what they want to do in XIV is located after it.

Like, it's an okay story. It's alright. If someone wants to raid primarily and doesn't care about the narrative, just... let them. Just let people pick an option, or something, that lets them get a massively streamlined story, or just skips it altogether without having to dedicate another chunk of cash for the privilege of not spending 80+ hours clicking on NPCs.

Especially when doing the MSQ is hardly content in and of itself, since it's just a click and point adventure game without anything interesting to do with the games systems and, even when you end up at Thordan with all the build up, the end result is more of a sad joke as your df'd group blows him up in a few minutes and you're back to "click npc, read. Move twenty feet. Click NPC." It's not riveting gameplay, and there's a lot of people who're interested in the gameplay elements that, in XIV, only end up fleshed out at the end game and are miserable to work with before then. I mean, I just go afk on some of the duties on the normal difficulty and somehow win. It's an extremely dull affair.

If the MSQ played like a game and not just the lowest budget movie you could ever ask for, maybe I'd hold a different opinion. But I also don't think the shining feature of a MMO should be the solo player experience, especially when it's more like a solo viewer experience.

Selling a solution to a problem isn't a solution to the problem. At best that's a scam.

And multiple expansions worth of hours to slog through terribly designed quests that promise just about 0 interesting gameplay fun from them is, despite what some people think, a massive turn off to people who do want to play a videogame at the end of the day.

[Enla]

Except those 'in between' quests are all set up for the expansions to come and every single one of them have story beats the can be called back to at any time. 5.4 for example had a storyline with Merylwyb that started back in 2.2 and that no one thought to resolve till now. Hell the whole 'Warriors of Darkness' schtick was part of the expanded Heavensward questline after the initial expac and we got an entire expansion dedicated to their world and storyline in the form of Shadowbringers. Absolutely none of them are 'optional' storybeats because they're there to continue the story into the next expansion and beyond. The idea that they're 'side quest' worth simply because they happen in between expansions is a pretty bad faith take at best.

Honestly if the story isn't something you want to bother with there is a solution for that. Compared to the hours you'd spend doing the story the monetary value is quite the bargain. SE made it pretty clear that they aren't going to make the MSQ optional any time soon so this is the only option you are going to get if it's affecting your enjoyment that much. "But SE might listen to us!" Unless we get another FF MMO to replace this one as it goes into maintenance mode I very much doubt they will. The MSQ is a selling point for this game. If it was truly such a huge impediment to player enjoyment they'd have the data to show that. Which is the primary reason they reduced the number of quests in ARR but nowhere else in the storyline. Until the data actually reflects that people are abandoning this game due to the MSQ they aren't going to change a single thing.

[MilkieTea]

That would be a good question if there wasn't an option to pay to remove them all.

You said that the root of the problem was to remove most of the post-MSQ quests.

do you know which post-MSQ quests you would NOT remove? in order to maintain the storyline and not leave players confused?