MSQ

[Lauront]

Whether you or anyone else liked it or not, this is path they took his character. I don't see them "correcting" it now. He's probably here to stay. I do wish they would be more bold when it comes to character deaths, but they've shown time and again that if a character is resurrected or if they faked their own deaths or if they've gone MIA...they aren't going anywhere. I'm not asking for Game of Thrones levels of character deaths, but man...I do wish that there would be more actual consequences in the story. With a story that deals with so many threats from so many places they keep things more G than PG 13 most of the time.

The problem IMO is inherent in their approach - they wait to see how a character is received, bide their time and then if they're sufficiently popular or serviceable to an upcoming plot point, they bring them back. Unless they have a firm action plan in mind and commitment to definitively kill off a character, and don't leave it up to interpretation if they're "dead" or not, the temptation will remain there and will continue to do so unless they revise their approach. They probably don't really even see it as an issue.

With that said, I think they should cut their losses sooner rather than later, and irrespective of whether a character is brought back or not, if they are not working, find a way to exit them. Best done by introducing a new character in parallel who can take the mantle and then a decision can be made between the two. Sunk costs, and all that.

I mean, the only entity there after Thordan was Nidhogg. I don't recall ANY mention of Lahabrea's soul or consciousness remaining in the eyes. Heck, we offed THREE Primals (counting Estinihog) with them; if Lahabrea's essence had still been in the eyes, you'd think he would have body hopped into the very tired Estinien, or that Zenos would have mentioned it after taking over Shinryu.

I don't think Lahabrea will be a physical presence in Pandemonium, but rather that it'll deal with his legacy. Not unless Lahabrea's character is heavily reworked in EW.

I'm basing it off Ishikawa's answer in the stuff from here.

Had his soul been destroyed before that point, she could've just said it, and yet she didn't. She just said he's in a similar situation to an Ascian trapped in an auracite and is implying that the auracite is less important than holding their soul still before striking it with the blast of aether. In conjunction with the fact that the white auracite method results in their "expulsion" to the Aetherial Sea (presumably to eventually be reborn), it follows that simply piercing the eye, which he was apparently within, is not going to suffice to destroy his soul, either, if a more comprehensive method cannot even do that. Just to clarify what I am addressing, it is not the consciousness - it is the notion that their souls are destroyed via the white auracite method. They're not, even if the EN version of What Little Gods Are Made Of gives the vague impression of it. Quite frankly we've no idea how his soul would be affected by what it's been through, so how his consciousness has been affected, whatever remains of it, is an unknown.

With that said, I don't disagree that that is an approach they could take with Pandaemonium. My theory on it is that it ultimately will provide a venue for the "what if" fight with Zodiark, since MSQ trials probably don't suffice to do a being of such power justice. I'm not particularly bothered by how they undertake further exploration of his character. However, his story did feel incomplete, especially with what we've learnt of him in Amaurot, so I'd like more of him, and possibly a proper boss fight, even if it's still a "what if" based on memory of him.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Y'shtola should die, primarily because she has cheated Death so many times, and there needs to be a Point where that luck runs out.
Alisaie, I feel like its being constantly hinted that she is destined for something greater and they are building her up for that with how much attention and responsibilities they are giving her this past expansion. Y'shtola's Death possibly making room for Alisaie to Step Up.

I dont think G'raha should die, not yet at least.

[Iscah]

Nah, my opinion is based on the fact that I've done those quests, can't tell the difference from most of them and other side quests, and have lost a few friends who found them boring (not challenging, just boring), and the fact that you can now pay to skip them. Why is that? If those 80 quests (or so, maybe just 78?) are so important.

Then your point is against "main quests that feel like sidequests, not post-credits MSQ. You get plenty of that pre-credits too.

And the specific number of quests gets overblown anyway. A single actual mission can span several quests from start to finish.

[Kyrj]

The MSQ is good but unlike others I'm not gonna suck it's toes either. It ABSOLUTELY does drag on in parts and is a major flaw for new players. Imagine your FC is getting together to do some doggo farming or Bozjan Front farming but because you didn't go collect 25 bear asses or 10 goblin armpit cheese you can't join in on the fun even though you may have a Job at the right level.

When I reached that point all I could think about was just skipping the MSQ, I can watch it all later at an Inn room anyways, I want to play with my friends.

[Tommara]

Then your point is against "main quests that feel like sidequests, not post-credits MSQ. You get plenty of that pre-credits too.

And the specific number of quests gets overblown anyway. A single actual mission can span several quests from start to finish.

To be honest, I don't understand your meaning about post/pre credits MSQ.

My point is simply that the ARR MSQ has about 80 quests, most of which are really boring, which has caused me to quit several times. But I keep coming back because I'm a fan of Final Fantasy games, because of my love for their stories, beginning in 1990's. But those were single player games.

Most of my online friends are from the Everquest era, which taught them well to avoid time wasters.

So they know time wasters when they see them, but lacking history with Final Fantasy games, aren't as willing to stick them out as would a long time FF fan.

Edited Note: ala "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" It doesn't matter that the game devs are different, because they pretty much copy each other, as a long time gamer knows.

What a long time PC gamer doesn't know is that Final Fantasy games generally have a really interesting story, but that's not really apparent in ARR. At least, the story is not worth the time it takes to complete 80 level 50 MSQ's.

The story does get better after ARR. But you have get past ARR first.

[MilkieTea]

It took like... a few hours to finish the Post-MSQ if I remember correctly. It's not that long, honestly.

[ZedxKayn]

The main issue with the MSQ isn't that it's boring since it's subjective (though I do agree), it's that it's not optional if you want to enjoy the game, and dreadfully lengthy.

[linayar]

The main issue with the MSQ isn't that it's boring since it's subjective (though I do agree), it's that it's not optional if you want to enjoy the game, and dreadfully lengthy.

If being boring is not a problem because that's subjective, being mandatory and lengthy is also not a problem since it's subjective whether or not you had fun doing the MSQ. I enjoyed the game from the start while doing the MSQ.

The devs acknowledged concerns about ARR and they didn't make the MSQ optional, but trimmed it. So the dev has made their position known on this. The MSQ is the game unless they change their mind. If you cannot enjoy the MSQ, you can pay to auto-complete up to a certain part, but the mandatory MSQ will still be there, only you'll be even less likely to enjoy it as you may not know about the story if you auto-complete through its earlier portion.

[ZedxKayn]

If being boring is not a problem because that's subjective, being mandatory and lengthy is also not a problem since it's subjective whether or not you had fun doing the MSQ. I enjoyed the game from the start while doing the MSQ.

The devs acknowledged concerns about ARR and they didn't make the MSQ optional, but trimmed it. So the dev has made their position known on this. The MSQ is the game unless they change their mind. If you cannot enjoy the MSQ, you can pay to auto-complete up to a certain part, but the mandatory MSQ will still be there, only you'll be even less likely to enjoy it as you may not know about the story if you auto-complete through its earlier portion.

What the devs think doesn't make what I say any less true.
Every fun thing being locked behind a lengthy and mandatory MSQ is hurting the new player retention a lot whether fans want to acknowledge it or not.

Also how people "feel" about the MSQ is subjective and personal, but it's long and most importantly mandatory, long in the video game standard but it's not subjective that the majority of the game is gated behind it. It's a theme park MMO ffs.

[Tommara]

What the devs think doesn't make what I say any less true.
Every fun thing being locked behind a lengthy and mandatory MSQ is hurting the new player retention a lot whether fans want to acknowledge it or not.

Also how people "feel" about the MSQ is subjective and personal, but it's long and most importantly mandatory, long in the video game standard but it's not subjective that the majority of the game is gated behind it. It's a theme park MMO ffs.

This.

You've said it much better than I did.