MSQ

[Theodric]

The cast is so large at this point, though - and if someone cannot find a new favourite character to cheer on even if their primary favourite is eliminated then I daresay they might not be all that invested in the setting and story as they convince themselves to be.

Some of my favourite characters across a broad range of settings have been killed off. When handled well, I'm fine with it. I don't need my favourite characters to stick around 'just because'.

It'd also be respectful to truly show the horrors of war by disallowing the main characters to always remain triumphant and return with minimal losses even as they cut down and end hundreds of lives without much thought.

[linayar]

The cast is so large at this point, though - and if someone cannot find a new favourite character to cheer on even if their primary favourite is eliminated then I daresay they might not be all that invested in the setting and story as they convince themselves to be.

Some of my favourite characters across a broad range of settings have been killed off. When handled well, I'm fine with it. I don't need my favourite characters to stick around 'just because'.

For me, it's not a matter of favorite. I simply see no use in death of non-enemy characters other than for showing tragedy. If they do it well, then great, but it's still a waste to me. Yes, they can bring up new casts of character, but they can do that while still keeping the core.

Ooh, that's it. If I compare FFXIV to a series, then I like having a constant cast of main characters, maybe with minor changes along the various seasons, but a large revolving set of guest characters.

It'd also be respectful to truly show the horrors of war by disallowing the main characters to always remain triumphant and return with minimal losses even as they cut down and end hundreds of lives without much thought.

This is the only reason I see for death, but the thing is, for me personally, I already got that with the death of Louisoix. The horrors of war does not need to be portrayed using main characters repeatedly when there are side characters (or extras) whose role would fit that portrayal. Someone like Tesleen (sp?), for example.

[Theodric]

Many iconic TV show moments involve the deaths of major characters, though. At some point, a cast becomes bloated - and much like how hiring actors is expensive on a consistent basis, so too is it the case with voice actors.

As for tragedy, especially in regards to war stories I absolutely and firmly believe that civilians need to be shown exactly what the consequences of war actually are. Because then they might be encouraged to do more to deescalate such things in the real world and speak out against it.

I think it's dangerous for stories to push the idea that if people go to war they'll be able to return from it with their friends and be praised as heroes when the bleak reality is that they're actually just coming back from killing a bunch of young men and women with their own hopes, dreams and ideals...and that in the blink of an eye, a stray bullet could easily end the life of a beloved comrade.

Though that'd involve civilians learning to stop glorifying war and honour the realistic, actual death toll on both sides of a conflict. Thus far, FFXIV only really pretends to do that but doesn't truly commit to it. Plenty of other JRPG's have done it, though - including previous Final Fantasy games.

Oh well. I don't expect it to actually happen, though I do think it'd be the right move.

[linayar]

Many iconic TV show moments involve the deaths of major characters, though. At some point, a cast becomes bloated - and much like how hiring actors is expensive on a consistent basis, so too is it the case with voice actors.

As for tragedy, especially in regards to war stories I absolutely and firmly believe that civilians need to be shown exactly what the consequences of war actually are. Because then they might be encouraged to do more to deescalate such things in the real world and speak out against it.

I think it's dangerous for stories to push the idea that if people go to war they'll be able to return from it with their friends and be praised as heroes when the bleak reality is that they're actually just coming back from killing a bunch of young men and women with their own hopes, dreams and ideals...and that in the blink of an eye, a stray bullet could easily end the life of a beloved comrade.

Though that'd involve civilians learning to stop glorifying war and honour the realistic, actual death toll on both sides of a conflict. Thus far, FFXIV only really pretends to do that but doesn't truly commit to it. Plenty of other JRPG's have done it, though - including previous Final Fantasy games.

Oh well. I don't expect it to actually happen, though I do think it'd be the right move.

Oh, there should certainly be stories that does not glorify war. I just don't think FFXIV has to be it. This is an action game, and it always feels hollow to me if a story tries to preach against violence while the character is all about getting stronger in order to inflict more damage to the enemies.

As a fantasy story, this is more about being that superhero, that champion that will fight to defend his friends. So being able to save is what I feel is the point. We already have deaths from Louisoix and Papalymo, along with deaths from lesser characters. I think that's enough, though they can certainly add more to it in the future, but I think it has to be used wisely and not something that people should expect moving forward. That's why all the candidates that people bring up on who should die just do not feel like good candidates to me. I honestly dislike how 5.5 went with all the potential foreshadowing regarding two people's fates.

[BlitzAceRush]

The thing with character deaths is that this is a long-running story and "characters who have been with us since the beginning" are a finite resource. They can't just kill one off every time the story needs drama.

This to me is one of the biggest points, this is a long running narrative, it takes a lot of time to give even front line cast members enough room to grow. Take Estinien for example, if they killed him in 6.0, that's growth all the way from ARR gone, anyone who would replace him would need time to get there, if characters died as often as some seem to want them to, the WoL would be surrounded by people they barely know, trying to carrying the scenes themselves with no voice acting while all our cast members are stuck in their "growing" phase because most of them just joined an expansion ago.

Even using the TV series example, before GoT tried to make it cool to kill nearly everyone (which to me only made it more obvious who was shielded) most long running shows still didn't have that many deaths, you had one or two really "big" ones of long running cast members that hit you hard, but that was it, the others you could tell they were being groomed to die later or built up for a death so the mains didn't have to. Most of the other surprise deaths often end up being outside factors, an actor/tress wanting to move on, contract disputes or other real world stuff.
I remember watching 24 and being shocked when Jack killed Curtis, it was so sudden and so painful, then I found out it was because of the actor not liking how they were using his character and them effectively writing him out, kind of took all of the punch out of it.

They've done a better job showing how horrific war can be in Fordola and how growing up in an occupied country, being forced to live by your conquers doctrine, to chose between holding onto your peoples ideals and suffering or trying to integrate into a people who don't really accept you while making yourself a traitor to your own. Then, the "hero's" years later march in and "save the day", she having to come to terms with what she's done and us having to realize that it's not always as "easy" as arriving and beating the bad guys and making everything better. Than killing Thancred and everyone is sad because he died in a battle.
There's also a place for realism and the "horrors of war" and it doesn't have to be in every work of fiction, 14 still lets there be weight to events, the main cast losing members isn't the only metric of cost, the MSQ is long, but it's only got so much room, when bad things happen, there is only so long the main characters can dwell on something, even one of their own dying before they have to move on.
As far as all of the Scions's are concerned, Minfilia is gone, dead in body long ago but her soul is finally at rest too, and yet her send off was done in a side quest with just you and F'lhaminn, the other Scions barely mention it outside of passing if the topic draws a parallel to something relating to her, not because they don't care but because there just isn't room for it.

[Tommara]

I find it deeply saddening to see TWO YEARS of the work of the dev's to produce the content from the release of ARR and 2.0 to the release of Heavensward dismissed as "80 useless quests". As if they should have sat there and released nothing.

Wonder if you'd dismiss anything from Heavensward that wasn't in it at launch, or stormblood, or the content coming out NOW that's doing the same job for Shadowbringers.

Just because something comes after the first set of credits isn't code for "this is useless filler, skip it". HALF of this game is the B plot stories that get told in the patches between expansions. Another 25% of the game is told in side story quests. The main story, is only about 25% of the game, maybe less.

I think you missed the fact my ONLY complaint is that these quests are labelled "MSQ" and so are required. Unless you pay extra to skip them.

Of course they should remain in the game.

Edited note: "MSQ" is even the title I gave to this thread, and I addressed your points in my opening post.

[Alleo]

Many iconic TV show moments involve the deaths of major characters, though. At some point, a cast becomes bloated - and much like how hiring actors is expensive on a consistent basis, so too is it the case with voice actors.

Which they could simply solve by them staying in Eorzea after what happens in 6.0 while the WoL travels on and meets new faces. They dont need to kill NPCs off just to make place.

Death should have a meaning, at least in a story. Its not real life where one can simply just slip on a wet street and break their neck. They take their time (expansions even) to built up these characters. It would be imo a absolute waste to kill them just because. Death just loses any meanings then and people might just stop caring for the characters at all. For example I do find Ysayles death fitting while I just cant accept Haurchefant. Both of these characters were part of my favorites (only the twins left v_v) yet his death hit me way harder and not only because of sadness but because I was so angry that they decided to kill him of in that way. It felt utterly wasted. Just a death here for cheap tragedy...

I have no problem if they kill of some of the scions but only if it makes sense. Only if it matters and there is no way to prevent it. Then it truly hits you. Just like how in the manga One Piece barely anyone of the known characters die. For the mangaka death is a cheap way out, especially for the bad guys. He believes that crushing their dreams hits harder. There is still death but mostly in the past or at the side. So when he killed of a certain person, it was like a punsh to the stomach. It was fitting for the character and it greatly influenced the main character.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I think the main problem here is, no they shouldn’t be killing off main characters left and right but i don’t think anyone is asking for that. But they shouldn’t completely throw the story plot out of the window and create plot holes or incredible plot armor for a character just to keep them alive. They did this with Graha, TWICE. Ignoring past lore points they had specifically set up against him just to keep him alive because he was a fan favorite. When it contradicts the story to do that, that’s when i take issue with it. In regards to consequences now though. There’s a literal apocalypse starting. The stakes are the highest theyve ever been. It’s ignorant to think that everyone is going to come out unscathed lmao. This is a literal global wide catastrophe that destroyed ancient civilization and now it’s happening again. In regards to them spending expansions building up a character, yes i agree that it’s a waste to kill them off before they’ve truly flourished(it’s why i absolutely hate 5.3 and the direction they took with Elidibus). But if done right it can be meaningful and impactful still. But we shouldn’t just say “oh i hope this character doesn’t die because i LOVE them and they’re the cutest and coolest thing ever.” That’s idiotic.

[Iscah]

I think you missed the fact my ONLY complaint is that these quests are labelled "MSQ" and so are required.

That is what they're addressing - your opinion that they somehow shouldn't be MSQ just because they're patch quests, even though they form part of the story just as much as the leveling portion of the MSQ.

[Tommara]

That is what they're addressing - your opinion that they somehow shouldn't be MSQ just because they're patch quests, even though they form part of the story just as much as the leveling portion of the MSQ.

Nah, my opinion is based on the fact that I've done those quests, can't tell the difference from most of them and other side quests, and have lost a few friends who found them boring (not challenging, just boring), and the fact that you can now pay to skip them. Why is that? If those 80 quests (or so, maybe just 78?) are so important.

Edited Note: Not meaning to pick on ARR, you can pay to skip all of them.