MSQ

[Seera1024]

Absolutely not.

I'm unhappy specifically BECAUSE they added a weak, questionably consistent twist to the story because they thought that people would be mad if they killed G'raha.

They should *not* have written an entirely different plot just because people did like a character.

They had been foreshadowing G'raha's death from the beginning of the expansion, and then said "actually no, he's actually still alive." A decision that took what could have been an extremely powerful, impactful story point and turned it into a weak, meaningless one.

Imagine if they said "uhh, actually... Here's Haurchefant back, he never actually died." People would be pissed, his death was a major story point in Heavensward, and he was a beloved character.

I don't have a problem with them having added G'raha to the story and the Scions. Since the Trust system pulls from the Scions mostly for the permanently available options they probably wanted a tank that was capable of tanking without the limitations that Thancred has due to the story. Or to avoid having to replace another member of the trusts since they have to replace Ryne since she's only available on the First and not the Source.

I wish they had done it such that he didn't get the memories back. They weren't too sure in the First if the transference would work given the G'raha back on the Source had a soul still. Then he could have had an arc of him feeling like he has to try to live up to who he had become on the First - the Exarch. But then coming to an understanding that he just needs to be himself after realizing that the Exarch became the Exarch due to the circumstances he was in - circumstances that Shadowbringers' story was designed to prevent in the first place.

I just hope he quickly moves past the fanboy stage with several of the more notable characters. As that will get old quickly.

[Arkevorkhat]

I don't have a problem with them having added G'raha to the story and the Scions. Since the Trust system pulls from the Scions mostly for the permanently available options they probably wanted a tank that was capable of tanking without the limitations that Thancred has due to the story. Or to avoid having to replace another member of the trusts since they have to replace Ryne since she's only available on the First and not the Source.

I mean, it's already confirmed that we're getting Estinien into the trust system with 6.0, personal hygiene joke and all.

Besides, there are a bunch of people who could have been added to the trust system as tanks before dragging the Exarch from the first.
Arenvald, for example.

[linayar]

The tower is only as integral as the devs decided to make it.
Prior to 5.3, it was basically optional, but conveniently, when they added level 50 content to the free trial, they also made it mandatory to do crystal tower for the story.

Absent the financial pressure from Square-Enix Corporate, I can all but guarantee you that the story of 5.3's post-MSQ would have been very different.

I don't know if you remember, but prior to 5.3, the whole "send this guy back to the source" (Speaking vaguely because spoilers) idea was shot down multiple times, and then suddenly with 5.3 they decided "No actually, we ARE sending him back."
If anything, adding the Crystal Tower to the story requirements introduced plotholes, instead of patching them.

Maybe there was a change in plan, but even if true, I think that might have to do with the popularity of the character.

Regardless, once they decided on what to do with the character, they need to preserve the continuity of the story, which means the tower is relevant for 5.3.

[Arkevorkhat]

Maybe there was a change in plan, but even if true, I think that might have to do with the popularity of the character.

Regardless, once they decided on what to do with the character, they need to preserve the continuity of the story, which means the tower is relevant for 5.3.

-.- You really don't get it.

The continuity of the story was broken by the continued survival of a character that had been actively dying for 3 major patches.

Besides, Haurchefant was, and still is, a popular character, should he still be alive? Nobody would ever say yes.


There is nothing that can be done to make it so that G'raha's survival wasn't a complete story break and massive plothole, Crystal tower or no.

The Crystal Exarch is a worthless justification for making every person in this game do one of the worst pieces of content in FFXIV history.

[Vahlnir]

-.- You really don't get it.

The continuity of the story was broken by the continued survival of a character that had been actively dying for 3 major patches.

Besides, Haurchefant was, and still is, a popular character, should he still be alive? Nobody would ever say yes.


There is nothing that can be done to make it so that G'raha's survival wasn't a complete story break and massive plothole, Crystal tower or no.

The Crystal Exarch is a worthless justification for making every person in this game do one of the worst pieces of content in FFXIV history.

Regardless of what you believe the plan should have been, clearly SE had their own. Maybe it was their original plan to kill him off entirely. Maybe it wasn't, and what we see is what they had planned all along. Considering they have to plan months and months ahead I'd wager it was set in stone from the beginning. With the way they handled some past character "deaths", I wasn't surprised at all with how things went down, but it still hit me right in the feels which doesn't happen often. lol Also relevant is the fact that he DID die. However, he wanted us to take his soul across the rift and put it back in his body on the Source who wasn't dead but still sleeping after locking himself away in the Crystal Tower. Now that the future he was part of didn't come to pass, he had no reason to stay inside...so here we are. If anything I'm impressed with how much they thought it through compared to past...situations.

[linayar]

-.- You really don't get it.

The continuity of the story was broken by the continued survival of a character that had been actively dying for 3 major patches.

Besides, Haurchefant was, and still is, a popular character, should he still be alive? Nobody would ever say yes.


There is nothing that can be done to make it so that G'raha's survival wasn't a complete story break and massive plothole, Crystal tower or no.

The Crystal Exarch is a worthless justification for making every person in this game do one of the worst pieces of content in FFXIV history.

You're right, I don't get your logic in this. A plot hole is literally a hole in the plot. "Actively dying" doesn't mean dead, but with that said, his body on the First still "died" or whatever as far as we know. What plot hole is there in G'raha surviving via his body on the source? You not liking the explanation doesn't make it a plot hole.

[Arkevorkhat]

Regardless of what you believe the plan should have been, clearly SE had their own. Maybe it was their original plan to kill him off entirely. Maybe it wasn't, and what we see is what they had planned all along. Considering they have to plan months and months ahead I'd wager it was set in stone from the beginning. With the way they handled past character "deaths", I wasn't surprised at all with how things went down, but it still hit me right in the feels which doesn't happen often. lol Also relevant is the fact that he DID die. However, he wanted us to take his soul across the rift and put it back in his body on the Source who wasn't dead but still sleeping after locking himself away in the Crystal Tower. Now that the future he was part of didn't come to pass, he had no reason to stay inside...so here we are. If anything I'm impressed with how much they thought it through compared to past...situations.

Yoshida has said on numerous occasions that Story Development and game programming happen on a 2-patch cycle, when they finish one patch, they begin work on the one two patches later.

What that means is that the decision to resurrect G'raha was made... Drumroll Please... AFTER THE RELEASE OF 5.1.

This was a calculated monetary decision, nothing more, and it's something that SE should catch flak for.

[Vahlnir]

Yoshida has said on numerous occasions that Story Development and game programming happen on a 2-patch cycle, when they finish one patch, they begin work on the one two patches later.

What that means is that the decision to resurrect G'raha was made... Drumroll Please... AFTER THE RELEASE OF 5.1.

This was a calculated monetary decision, nothing more, and it's something that SE should catch flak for.

Or maybe it wasn't their plan at all to kill him off entirely. I'd like to see the sources that confirm that they decided to keep him alive for financial gain. I'm not saying that wasn't a motivator, but no one but SE and the devs knows their full reasoning. There was no hole in the plot regardless. His death and his revival made complete sense.

[Arkevorkhat]

You're right, I don't get your logic in this. A plot hole is literally a hole in the plot. "Actively dying" doesn't mean dead, but with that said, his body on the First still "died" or whatever as far as we know. What plot hole is there in G'raha surviving via his body on the source? You not liking the explanation doesn't make it a plot hole.

OK Sure Fine. I think the story writers at SE are incapable of writing a cohesive narrative, happy yet?

I pick this game's story apart because the developers constantly fawn over how supposedly amazing it is, when in reality, it's just another formulaic RPG plot that serves to get in the way of me getting to the actually interesting content at the END of an expansion.

There's really nothing special about FF14's story, and anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know anything about screenwriting or is too blinded by the pretty visuals.

To Elaborate:

ARR Was effectively: Monsters are coming to the world, and Plot-armored protagonist has to go kill them. Monsters are dead, but now there's an evil government that we need to go defeat.

Heavensward was basically ARR all over again, with an extra helping of Fugitive for a crime I didn't commit, but this time with Snow!.

Stormblood was "Let's go beat up the same government that we wailed on during the second half of ARR"

Shadowbringers was "ARR, but on another world".

And they're all couched in enough political "intrigue" to bore even the most ardent of Diplomacy fans.

[linayar]

OK Sure Fine. I think the story writers at SE are incapable of writing a cohesive narrative, happy yet?

I pick this game's story apart because the developers constantly fawn over how supposedly amazing it is, when in reality, it's just another formulaic RPG plot that serves to get in the way of me getting to the actually interesting content at the END of an expansion.

There's really nothing special about FF14's story, and anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know anything about screenwriting or is too blinded by the pretty visuals.

You're free to dislike the story, but criticizing one element of the story that helps with cohesion just because it forces you to do a content that you don't like makes me wander what your actual complaint is when you say the writers are not writing a cohesive narrative?