MSQ

[VelKallor]

The tower basically serves as a mcguffin that links the source to the first, but it's not integral to the actual storyline, except as far as it was shoehorned in.

You are assuming it wasnt the plan all along, and that this entire arc wasnt fleshed out a long time ago.

[Arkevorkhat]

You are assuming it wasnt the plan all along, and that this entire arc wasnt fleshed out a long time ago.

Given that there was no recommendation that one complete it beyond its status as a blue questline before 5.3, I think it's perfectly fair to assume that it was not originally intended to be an integral part of the storyline.

The logical place to have required completion of the Crystal Tower raids would have been with the release of 5.0, as a prerequisite for the quest "The Syrcus Trench", in contrast to its current place as a requirement for the quest "A Time To Every Purpose," which is part of the transition from A Realm Reborn to Heavensward, and was added, again, with the release of Patch 5.3, as a shift in the canon, where people who completed ARR before 5.3 had materially different requirements to begin heavensward than people who completed ARR after 5.3

CT is the one storyline in FF14 that was once optional, but is now required for MSQ progression.

[MariaArvana]

You are assuming it wasnt the plan all along, and that this entire arc wasnt fleshed out a long time ago.

It wasn't. Early FF14 was a lot of touch and go, as this answer for question #9 from a lore Q&A mentioned in this thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-transcript%29

Naoki Yoshida:
So if we take this example to refer FF XIV as a tv drama series we kind of apply the first season of FFXIV as ARR (A Realm Reborn).
If the result is not good then the second season, Heavensward, could have been the end of the journey.

We had these overall details though we didn't elaborate those but when we started developing on A Realm Reborn and saw that the rhythm is there and it is looking great we expanded upon to decide on settings around the Ascians.
For those who are handling the main scenario being Oda and Ishikawa - especially Oda they going back to the pages and dialogue and fact log with a thoroughly research and try to adapt those facts.

And after that they add more into it but without creating too many contradictions with the ones that created the facts beforehand and they improvise the new facts so everything fts up nicely. They are skilled to weave out the great story and the lore which is extraordinary.

Basically, they were unsure if ARR & Heavensward was going to be successful or not, so didn't worry about long-term story planning in 2.0 due to the prospect that FF14 might have failed around that point. It wasn't until after HW's success they started planning more long-term. This can also be easily seen in how they retroactively made Crystal Tower required for MSQ; if they had known it'd be mandatory for MSQ way down the line, they would have 100% added it in as mandatory back in the 2.x series.

[Frizze]

Given that there was no recommendation that one complete it beyond its status as a blue questline before 5.3...

This simply isnt true though. It was strongly suggested that players complete the CT line months before shadowbringers ever launched. It was either at one of the fan fests, one of the live letters, or a post on the lodestone(i forget which and dont feel like googling it) - but about 3+ months prior to 5.0 they suggested anyone who hadnt already done so complete those quests for the ShB story. It wasnt set as a requirement yet(they wouldnt have been working on 5.3 yet actively, and the story outline they had set would have been subject to change at the time), and various scenes had 2 versions of the dialogue(one if you had done it, one saying that you would eventually do so). The change was made with 5.3(and again, announced well in advance). Was this for financial reasons? Was it fan reaction and how many people demanded G'raha? Some other reason? Whatever the reason, it was adopted into the MSQ requirements. They set 2 roadblocks so you couldnt proceed without doing the quests. One at level 50(when you naturally would have done it since it was a lvl 50 set of instances), and one in the 5.3 quests themselves for anyone who had already passed the first quest and not yet done it.

Then G'raha gives his speech about the first time the two of you climbed the tower. And once you finish up your work in the first, you go back to the tower to wake him and set him free again. Neither of those scenes can happen without you having cleared CT once for the story.

[TheMightyMollusk]

ARR also had a lot of rushed parts because they were trying to recover from the critical disaster of Legacy. Whatever good points it may have had (I wasn't there, I can't judge), 1.0 was a complete failure in business terms, and ARR was under huge pressure to fix it. So there was a lot of throwing things at the wall to see if they'd stick. We can see from guildhests, battlecraft leves, the MSQ roulette, and the higher difficulty tuning of the Binding Coils, among others, that quite a few things didn't go as planned.

[Arkevorkhat]

It wasnt set as a requirement yet(they wouldnt have been working on 5.3 yet actively, and the story outline they had set would have been subject to change at the time), and various scenes had 2 versions of the dialogue(one if you had done it, one saying that you would eventually do so). The change was made with 5.3(and again, announced well in advance).

My point exactly.

It was shoved in after the fact. ShB was originally designed to stand on its own without completion of the Crystal Tower raids, as evidenced by the multiple dialogue lines, and complete lack of requirement until 5.3.

The developers do not give people choices if they want them to go one way more than the other. It is their way, or you can stop playing.

[TheMightyMollusk]

My point exactly.

It was shoved in after the fact. ShB was originally designed to stand on its own without completion of the Crystal Tower raids, as evidenced by the multiple dialogue lines, and complete lack of requirement until 5.3.

The developers do not give people choices if they want them to go one way more than the other. It is their way, or you can stop playing.

Except, it was pretty clearly written with the intent of the player knowing what the Crystal Tower is, given that it's such a central part of the plot. And the reveal of the Exarch's identity is completely meaningless if you haven't finished the quests.

ShB was written expecting people to have done it, but tried to accommodate people who hadn't, until 5.3 came around and it was just too much of a stretch to keep trying.

[Arkevorkhat]

... until 5.3 came around and it was just too much of a stretch to keep trying.

Or, they could have, y'know, not introduced a massive plothole by telling us that sending G'raha back was impossible no less than three times, and then suddenly going "Oops! I guess it is possible after all", because people were fawning over a two-bit catboy with a god complex.

[TheMightyMollusk]

So they should've written an entirely different plot because you don't like a character? Because if we can do that, I'd love to go back and make Zenos stay dead in Stormblood.

[Arkevorkhat]

So they should've written an entirely different plot because you don't like a character? Because if we can do that, I'd love to go back and make Zenos stay dead in Stormblood.

Absolutely not.

I'm unhappy specifically BECAUSE they added a weak, questionably consistent twist to the story because they thought that people would be mad if they killed G'raha.

They should *not* have written an entirely different plot just because people did like a character.

They had been foreshadowing G'raha's death from the beginning of the expansion, and then said "actually no, he's actually still alive." A decision that took what could have been an extremely powerful, impactful story point and turned it into a weak, meaningless one.

Imagine if they said "uhh, actually... Here's Haurchefant back, he never actually died." People would be pissed, his death was a major story point in Heavensward, and he was a beloved character.

Stories and plot points should have consequences. All they've done here is tell the community that until we see a funeral, there is no death in the FF14 story, and that's a really poor precedent to set.