MSQ

[TheMightyMollusk]

They also cut one required dungeon run out of the MSQ. When the Scions move to Revenant's Toll, there used to be a quest to get a magic stone from the Sunken Temple of Qarn to help shore up the Toll's defenses. That's been dropped entirely.

Of course, they also now require players to complete the Crystal Tower quests, so it's a trade-off.

[Iscah]

If anything I'm kinda regretful they cut that one quest where we go to pray at Azeyma's stone. (It was indeed pointless at that time, unfortunately).

Oh, they removed that? It was a nice quiet moment, though "hike across the map for a single objective" does put it in the firing line.

It could have been converted to a sidequest from the Azyeman priest guy.

Of course, they also now require players to complete the Crystal Tower quests, so it's a trade-off.

Definitely a worthwhile trade, though.

[VelKallor]

Of course, they also now require players to complete the Crystal Tower quests, so it's a trade-off.

Tower relates directly to later content, so thats not "filler". When that became mandatory, I understood the reasoning.

[Arkevorkhat]

Tower relates directly to later content, so thats not "filler". When that became mandatory, I understood the reasoning.

Does it now? I know there's a crystal tower on the first, and that catboy jesus is associated with it in some way, but I glossed over that entire part of the story, just wasn't at all compelling.

[wereotter]

Does it now? I know there's a crystal tower on the first, and that catboy jesus is associated with it in some way, but I glossed over that entire part of the story, just wasn't at all compelling.

It's not just "a" Crystal Tower, it's literally the same Crystal Tower as we're seeing in Mor Dhona, transported across worlds and time. You see some of this on the screens and in the data logs in The Twinning. So the story about who is Graha Tia and what is the Crystal Tower is set up to a large part of the story for the expansion.

[Arkevorkhat]

It's not just "a" Crystal Tower, it's literally the same Crystal Tower as we're seeing in Mor Dhona, transported across worlds and time. You see some of this on the screens and in the data logs in The Twinning. So the story about who is Graha Tia and what is the Crystal Tower is set up to a large part of the story for the expansion.

The story of G'raha Tia was related to the main story, but the MSQ of shadowbringers can almost entirely stand on its own feet without any real understanding of the relation of the Exarch to the crystal tower on the source. The post-Shadowbringers MSQ is a slightly different matter, but even that could be explained away with a few lines of expositional dialogue, instead of wasting hours of each player's time going through the crystal tower raids.

The tower basically serves as a mcguffin that links the source to the first, but it's not integral to the actual storyline, except as far as it was shoehorned in.

[wereotter]

The story of G'raha Tia was related to the main story, but the MSQ of shadowbringers can almost entirely stand on its own feet without any real understanding of the relation of the Exarch to the crystal tower on the source. The post-Shadowbringers MSQ is a slightly different matter, but even that could be explained away with a few lines of expositional dialogue, instead of wasting hours of each player's time going through the crystal tower raids.

The tower basically serves as a mcguffin that links the source to the first, but it's not integral to the actual storyline, except as far as it was shoehorned in.

To be fair, they do that a lot... I hadn't thought about what happened with the story of the tower until this expansion and had forgotten who Graha even was.... but since this is story that leads directly into other main scenario quests, they decided it was mandatory

[Iscah]

The story of G'raha Tia was related to the main story, but the MSQ of shadowbringers can almost entirely stand on its own feet without any real understanding of the relation of the Exarch to the crystal tower on the source. The post-Shadowbringers MSQ is a slightly different matter, but even that could be explained away with a few lines of expositional dialogue, instead of wasting hours of each player's time going through the crystal tower raids.

We are sailing deep into spoiler territory here, but...

The thing is, Shadowbringers 5.0 was written to make sense whether you had done the Crystal Tower raids or not, because the time travel element means that the Exarch has been through those events with you even if you haven't yet done it yourself. (The non-CT version of the story doesn't quite line up, but it worked enough to make sense.)

5.3 doesn't work like that. You, here and now, are getting G'raha out of the tower, so he needs to be in there first. And for him to be in there, you need to do CT.

As I said earlier – the writers seem happy for things to be a little bit off if you haven't done certain side stories, but they won't pretend you've done something that you didn't. You need to have personally been there with G'raha, or the story doesn't make sense.

[Arkevorkhat]

We are sailing deep into spoiler territory here, but...

The thing is, Shadowbringers 5.0 was written to make sense whether you had done the Crystal Tower raids or not, because the time travel element means that the Exarch has been through those events with you even if you haven't yet done it yourself. (The non-CT version of the story doesn't quite line up, but it worked enough to make sense.)

5.3 doesn't work like that. You, here and now, are getting G'raha out of the tower, so he needs to be in there first. And for him to be in there, you need to do CT.

As I said earlier – the writers seem happy for things to be a little bit off if you haven't done certain side stories, but they won't pretend you've done something that you didn't. You need to have personally been there with G'raha, or the story doesn't make sense.

I mean, this only makes sense as long as nothing of consequence ever happens without the WoL's intervention.

Was the WoL was even needed in the CT storyline to begin with? There weren't any primals locked up in there, so the only difference between the PC and any random person is that we've got the Echo, which is functionally unneeded for the 3 raids in CT, since again, nothing there will temper you, and I'd expect that Cid Garland of all people could figure out how to get through a tower full of Allagan tech.

The story would have been internally consistent regardless of the WoL's intervention, with the basic requirement that Cid and the literal heir to Allag be minimally self-sufficient, which is a requirement that they've proven time and again is one that they meet.

[linayar]

The story of G'raha Tia was related to the main story, but the MSQ of shadowbringers can almost entirely stand on its own feet without any real understanding of the relation of the Exarch to the crystal tower on the source. The post-Shadowbringers MSQ is a slightly different matter, but even that could be explained away with a few lines of expositional dialogue, instead of wasting hours of each player's time going through the crystal tower raids.

The tower basically serves as a mcguffin that links the source to the first, but it's not integral to the actual storyline, except as far as it was shoehorned in.

The tower is integral to the continuity of the story in 5.3, so that's a direct relation. There is a limit to how much expositional dialogs can help explain when it involves the fate of a character.