MSQ

[BlitzAceRush]

Heh. Granted.

But that whole 2.0 mess is still not a fun story line, and never was, even back in 2013 when I first struggled and gave up screaming with the gobbie cheese. Then in 2015 when i tried a second time and gave up screaming about the same point.

Even cut down, it still drags on and on with menial food-delivery tasks. Nobody can say 2.0's an engaging story.

It's kind of subjective there, while you can say it is long, I personally enjoyed it then, and when I redid it prior to them cutting it it down, in fact I actually enjoyed it less after they cut it down as I felt it lost some things I liked. I did find it engaging, so I guess someone can say it. Is it as grand as a lot of what comes after? No, but it is the beginning of the tale and they can be humble.
A lot of the issue stems from the mentality, a lot of people are "slogging" through it to get "past" it, it's a means to an end, a roadblock something in the way. I never saw it as that, it's just me going through the story, I wasn't trying to get anywhere else, I was where I wanted to be, enjoying the story.

Funny story, my brother picked up the game little over two years ago, he felt much the same, was "slogging" through the story, trying to rush, he wanted to catch up, to be with me, to be at the end with me. I told him to "Slow down, take his time." That I "Envied him having so much ahead of him and he'll regret it when like me he was just sitting patch to patch waiting for what was next." But he didn't listen, he just wanted to be at the end with me, he wanted to see all the cool stuff he'd seen in the trailers and get all the cool spells and gear, he wanted to see where the story ended up. So he played and played and rushed. Come 5.1 he'd finally caught up, only, he was one quest away from being all caught up, it was only a week till 5.2 was due out, so I asked him why it had taken him 3 days and he'd still not finished the last quest? He replied. "I don't want it to be over, you were right, I should have gone slower, I miss having stuff ahead of me." He now knew how I felt and he hated it.

[CazzT]

But seriously, if you all think that 80 level 50 quests are necessary before being able to get out of ARR, your tolerance for tedium is greater than mine, and I played Everquest at release (actually before that, in EQ's stress beta), and watched a stump for a ground spawn for days.

Edited Note: Or perhaps my intolerance for tedium is grounded in my EQ experience.

Or our appreciation for storytelling is higher than yours. This isn't WoW where the story is irrelevant and so is your character. We are the champion of the story here.

FFXIV isn't even in the same galactic zip code of tedium as EQ1.

[Shibi]

It's kind of subjective there, while you can say it is long, I personally enjoyed it then, and when I redid it prior to them cutting it it down, in fact I actually enjoyed it less after they cut it down as I felt it lost some things I liked. I did find it engaging, so I guess someone can say it. Is it as grand as a lot of what comes after? No, but it is the beginning of the tale and they can be humble.

A lot of the issue stems from the mentality, a lot of people are "slogging" through it to get "past" it, it's a means to an end, a roadblock something in the way. I never saw it as that, it's just me going through the story, I wasn't trying to get anywhere else, I was where I wanted to be, enjoying the story.

It's likely where SE are not using their metrics correctly. The slog isn't from the number of quests. It's from how boring the filler in the 2.0 story is, moreso in the English version where Haurchefant is completely nuetered.

I mean.. this https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/It_Won%27t_Work isn't exactly riveting stuff.

[Ravenblade1979]

I just face palmed. Has the op never played a final fantasy ever in their life? I mean this is what this game is just on a mmo scale. This game isn't for you. Ok move on to something mind numbing for a mmo like ESO or tera. Oh I forgot. tera has dungeons that are next to impossible to queue for.

Wanna like NMS have at it but that's a survival game unlike ffxiv which is a mmorpg. Legit a different genre altogether

[BlitzAceRush]

It's likely where SE are not using their metrics correctly. The slog isn't from the number of quests. It's from how boring the filler in the 2.0 story is, moreso in the English version where Haurchefant is completely nuetered.

I mean.. this https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/It_Won%27t_Work isn't exactly riveting stuff.

You or anyone else finding it boring doesn't mean everyone dose, as I stated I liked 2.x and found it engaging, even silly quests like the one you listed, there's nothing wrong with not liking them but that dosen't make them objectively bad.
Not every quest needs to be taking on Nidhog, it's like the saying you measure light against the dark, but if there's nothing but light... if every quest was full on action high excitement and spectacle, they all get weaker, you need downtime in a story to make the build up and crescendo actually feely like one. I enjoy the smaller less important quests because they often make me feel more like I'm in a world not a movie, a movie is often all the best bits, you never see the hero waiting in line at the store, but while not the most "riveting" stuff it's those kind of details that make them feel less like an action hero and more like a person, no ones life, not even the WoL's is exciting all of the time.

[Penthea]

Not every game needs to cater to every taste - I've tried and abandoned so many games over time. This is one that I do enjoy.

It's impossible to please everyone. People's tastes can be so different. By trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. The best thing anyone can do is make sure their target audience is happy. It's clear from the success of this game that most players are fine with the msq being the driving force in the game. If they were not the game would have flopped a second time.

I wish more people understood that something not being to their taste doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

I tried Persona 5 and I didn't enjoy it due to the required time management. It was a serious turn off. I'm the sort of person who wants to be able to take their time and do as much or as little as they want when they want to. I didn't think "oh god this game is so bad" I thought "this game is bad for a person like me" because that's literally what the situation is. Persona 5 is a super popular and highly praised game, clearly it's an excellent game for so many other people. It just so happens it's not for someone like me.

And the same goes for how the msq is the driving force in this game. FFXIV wouldn't have become popular if the majority didn't enjoy the msq being a core feature. If a person can't stand the role the msq has then this game is not for them. Simple as that. There are other games to play. I didn't demand Persona 5's time management be changed or removed. I just shelved it and played something else. Much better use of my time to play something that caters to my tastes instead of demand anything that doesn't be changed to the point that the act of playing the game would hugely change. That sort of change just isn't going to happen if the majority of the target audience either have no issue with the feature you dislike or actually enjoy it.

The msq isn't going anywhere. If skipping cutscenes or having the option to purchase a story skip isn't enough, go play something else that doesn't have a core feature you hate dealing with.

[Shibi]

You or anyone else finding it boring doesn't mean everyone dose, as I stated I liked 2.x and found it engaging, even silly quests like the one you listed, there's nothing wrong with not liking them but that dosen't make them objectively bad.

No, it doesn't mean everyone will hate them, but just as you enjoy them, it doesn't mean everyone does.

There is no right answer outside a lot of people love 2.0, a lot of people are ambivalent about 2.0, a lot of people put up with 2.0 crying tears of blood, and a bunch just give up - maybe to return 5 or 6 times before they can get through it-like me, or maybe just to never return-which is sad.

After ARR it got better, and then HW was chalk and cheese and didn't feel like a slog. Look, if they feel it's hard going, people need to be encouraged to push through the 2.0 pain, the deliveroo-driving feeling will soon be over and more worthwhile things are just over the hill. Just hang in there and grit your teeth.

(and I still don't get why so many quests were devoted to this wine!? It's the one part of the story I never figured out.)

[wereotter]

80 quests before you can play Heavensward. Some are interesting story, most could be moved to side quests.

Having played through all the story to this point, and having replayed ARR since the culling of the quests, sure there's a lot of quests in there, but very little is just filler at this point. In fact, I'd counter that there's more filler in the quests within and immediately following Heavesnward have more fluff than ARR at this point. Like there's a whole series of quests in Heavensward about how Emmanellain can't seem to take no as an answer from Laniaitte feels more like side quest filler than anything that has any relevance to the main quest... and that's just one example.

[Shougun]

Having played through all the story to this point, and having replayed ARR since the culling of the quests, sure there's a lot of quests in there, but very little is just filler at this point. In fact, I'd counter that there's more filler in the quests within and immediately following Heavesnward have more fluff than ARR at this point. Like there's a whole series of quests in Heavensward about how Emmanellain can't seem to take no as an answer from Laniaitte feels more like side quest filler than anything that has any relevance to the main quest... and that's just one example.

Haven't done it since the trimming, are those, imo, annoying food and 'go fetch Minfila' quests still there? I'm aware they were trying to say you start out as a nobody, but personally at the time they were current content I still found those quests very "I don't care, I reeaaallly don't care". I try to read everything, unless massively sleepy or too immersive accent lol (I do not like Limsa pirate talk .. XD, if it was spoken I bet I would love it though), but some of those quests had me a bit eye rolling "this is clearly side quest material, kill 10 basement rats". In a more polished single player setting they would often have nice comedy and "pizzazz" (or not exist at all), but I'd not give those quests that award of great moments of levity (I know someone was making the example of contrast, which is a good thing to be considerate of, might see that in like a Ghibli film where they spend some time looking at the environment for zen, but I don't think the moment was good enough to call it a good use of zen). Maybe semi goofy but purely memorable (for myself) by how annoying they were- they really felt like "go pick up the book on the shelf opposite to me". Some of that may have lended to why I felt Minifila was just whatever, taskmaster sure.. and perhaps realistically so, but I'm trying to play a game not experience the hyper-realistic internal growth of the coffee boy rising up through the ranks lol. You can tell that story more excitingly, and still not miss the notes of starting out as a small town boy (thankfully this phase fades, for the most part, they happen less and are more memorable in good ways later- I think it was last expansion had a really cute dinner moment).

If most of that was trimmed, then that's amazing lol.

Though I still stand by the collective amount, regardless of any trimming, in the long run, is going to be an issue. Say, as at least Yoshida has said so much, they keep FFXIV the flagship- meaning maybe another 5 years at least. Give each expansion 50 hours, if you're not beelining, ignoring everything else, and skipping all the cutscenes / dialog, and ARR which is a bit longer like 75 hours (or more). 75 + 50 + 50 + 50 = 225 hours to get to Endwalker. Hey Endwalker does cap off all those previous hours though, so that's good. So + 50 more though to the next expansion where it should be starting a new story. 275 hours. You can watch Friends, the entire collection, twice, before you could catch up to current content. I wouldn't be too shocked if they don't do something about this in Endwalker, especially given they're giving away ARR and HW for free, but I would really be baffled if they did it for 7.0. Some of 'the best' single player games to have ever existed, where every moment is a treasurable moment, take less time to 100%.

[wereotter]

If most of that was trimmed, then that's amazing lol. .

Oh for sure. There are far fewer quests and many quests that are there also had the number of steps within them cut down. I can think of an example around level 25? There's a bartender in South Shroud that wants you to throw a bucket of cold water on one of the drunken patrons. Originally this quest involved going behind the bar, interacting with the bucket to pick it up, interacting with a point in the stream to put the bucket down, interacting with the bucket to fill it with water, interacting with it again to pick it up, then interacting with the patron to throw the water on him. Now, the bartender just gives you the bucket full of water to go throw on him.

The quest is still a bit filler-y in the "before I help you, I want you to help me" kind of way, but they cut down the time it took to do it dramatically.

Another one that really upset me was a 2.1 quest where you spent several quests helping F'lhaminn make a bottle of perfume before she'll agree to follow you to go see her daughter. Now when you find her, she mentions that she wants that perfume before going to see her, but then says that she doesn't need your help and will just pick it up on the way, cutting out all those quests where you were out gathering water and picking flowers, which was absolutely filler fluff. They maybe could do more... but I think they did a fine job so far and potentially they could look to other expansions now to see what can be cut back.