MSQ

[Iscah]

That's kind of my point though, he really should have been there, but there is a reason why, but it's in a side story that only makes sense if you've done it, so they just act as if he doesn't exist. Without the side story there's zero reason for him to not have made some form of appearance especially given it was speaking with her and you that finally got him to fully lend his support to you, but nothing, at the very least no one noticing this only adds to it.

I don't think his absence was that conspicuous. It's not like we had a reliable way to summon him before that, and he wasn't the one we needed to speak to.

[BlitzAceRush]

I don't think his absence was that conspicuous. It's not like we had a reliable way to summon him before that, and he wasn't the one we needed to speak to.

It's not about us needing him, this was a very pivotal moment for his kind that he'd show up for so many other things, but not this and this being after that side story would have taken place, in fact he hasn't appeared at all since where you can logically slot that side story into the canon if it was required.
It just felt very out of place for me, the last time we spoke with her, he was there, this was such a large call back to that time and he was a big part of that moment and it being a big moment, and it could have felt far more genuine if he convinced her it was time to move on, not that it didn't feel right coming from us, I just don't see any reason for him to not have made an appearance other than he couldn't and there's only one reason why he couldn't have been able to.

[Iscah]

in fact he hasn't appeared at all since where you can logically slot that side story into the canon if it was required.

Oh, absolutely on that front. We won't be calling on him at all for the time being, and it may strike people as odd if they haven't done it. But they won't explicitly say "we can't go talk to him because he's still sleeping off his encounter with Omega" and leave the player going "wait, what, when?"

At most you'd get a variable line making up some other excuse why he isn't available or we don't want to disturb him.

And I don't agree that it would have been more genuine coming from him. On the contrary, it seems far more significant that we convinced her to help us than for Midgardsormr to say that she should.

[BlitzAceRush]

Oh, absolutely on that front. We won't be calling on him at all for the time being, and it may strike people as odd if they haven't done it. But they won't explicitly say "we can't go talk to him because he's still sleeping off his encounter with Omega" and leave the player going "wait, what, when?"

At most you'd get a variable line making up some other excuse why he isn't available or we don't want to disturb him.

And I don't agree that it would have been more genuine coming from him. On the contrary, it seems far more significant that we convinced her to help us than for Midgardsormr to say that she should.

That's why I feel they should stop trying to tow the line, they tried it with the Crystal towers till it just didn't make sense anymore and then they're doing it lightly here, it'll also come into play if they ever wanted to bring Ryne back given they even give the WoL a dialogue line that gives Gaia an entry point for the duo.
Personally I'd be fine with them just making things mandatory as and when the wish, but I know a lot of people wouldn't like them adding to the MSQ, so to me the best compromise they could make is give plenty of forewarning that X side story is about to become relevant for the MSQ and you should do it by X patch but keep it optional, from that patch onwards everything will just act like that side story has been completed, obviously that'll confuse some people, but it'll be on them as they had plenty for warning.
There's just becoming too much MSQ relevant information locked out of the MSQ.

I do agree that it meant a lot coming from us, perhaps it was more fitting, but still, given who they are to one another, if someone doesn't know about Omega, they'd likely of expected him to say something.

[Iscah]

That's why I feel they should stop trying to tow the line, they tried it with the Crystal towers till it just didn't make sense anymore and then they're doing it lightly here, it'll also come into play if they ever wanted to bring Ryne back given they even give the WoL a dialogue line that gives Gaia an entry point for the duo.

If they ever brought Ryne back into the MSQ, I would expect her to come alone with a line that "Gaia is busy at the moment but she sends her regards".

I think the simplest way to sum up the writers' approach to side plots is that they're happy for things to seem a little bit off if you haven't done the relevant side stories (Midgardsormr oddly absent, ShB backstory timeline not quite making sense if CT isn't done yet) but they won't say you've actually done something that you haven't.

[Jojoya]

The 2.1 to 2.55 could use a bit more trimming but it's really in much better shape than it had been.

If you don't like playing through story, skip it. If you still feel like the game isn't appealing, why play it?

Being a popular MMO doesn't make it any less of a niche MMO by western standards. It's not going to appeal to everyone - and that's perfectly fine.

It's not about us needing him, this was a very pivotal moment for his kind that he'd show up for so many other things, but not this and this being after that side story would have taken place, in fact he hasn't appeared at all since where you can logically slot that side story into the canon if it was required.
It just felt very out of place for me, the last time we spoke with her, he was there, this was such a large call back to that time and he was a big part of that moment and it being a big moment, and it could have felt far more genuine if he convinced her it was time to move on, not that it didn't feel right coming from us, I just don't see any reason for him to not have made an appearance other than he couldn't and there's only one reason why he couldn't have been able to.

You're trying to assign human motivation to a being who lacks it.

He didn't take part when the Allagans invaded Mericydia, leading to the death of Bahamut and his subsequent summoning by Tiamat as a primal.

He didn't take part in the start of the Dragonsong War, when mortals killed Ratatoskr.

He probably wouldn't have been present for the conclusion of the Dragonsong War if our trip to Keeper of the Lake hadn't woken him and Hydaelyn made her request ("Harken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.").

Suddenly appearing in 5.5 would have made little sense considering what had happened in the past. There's a bit of a difference between we'd like to see a character reappear and that character's appearance making sense.

I played Vanilla WoW. Anyone who thinks this game is bad about filler clearly never had to hunt the headless raptors and footless quillboars in the Barrens. Or run across half of a continent, without a mount (because you used to not get a mount at all until level 40), through hostile territory (where getting too close to the other faction's guards would not only aggro them, it would also flag you for PVP), to complete a class quest. And let's not even get into the old attunement quests that you had to complete just to enter some dungeons and raids. Or, for that matter, modern WoW's byzantine requirements to unlock flying post-Pandaria.

I actually miss the attunement quests in general. The problem with them had been requiring an entire group of people to give up a significant amount of time for the sake of the single player trying to get attuned - and then having to repeat that every time a raid member needed to be replaced.

If Dungeon Finder and Group Finder had existed from the start of WoW, I suspect attunements would have remained a part of the game. The player needing attunement could have found groups to get them done withour inconveniencing the others.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I actually miss the attunement quests in general. The problem with them had been requiring an entire group of people to give up a significant amount of time for the sake of the single player trying to get attuned - and then having to repeat that every time a raid member needed to be replaced.

In theory, they were nice bits to build up the raid. In practice, some of them....ugh. Multiple runs of Blackrock Depths, with quest chains that required going in and out and back in again repeatedly to turn in objectives, with each run taking more than long enough for everything to respawn, to attune for Onyxia's Lair; then clearing the way through that ludicrously long dungeon (a full BRD run, even with a party that knew what they were doing and where to go, could take two to three hours) to get to the gate to Molten Core buried two-thirds of the way in; and if you wanted to forge any of the gear from MC, the forges for doing so were in BRD, so you'd have to clear your way in again to get to it, with your crafting mats taking up inventory space. And you would have to do all that forging, because tanks needed full flame resistance gear for MC and Onyxia; and then they'd need scales from Onyxia to make cloaks to survive some of the bosses in Blackwing Lair; which not only had its own attunement, but also required clearing Upper Blackrock Spire. And god forbid a tank quit or got poached by another guild after all of that, because then you'd have to do it all over again to get another tank geared up and ready if you wanted to keep progressing.....Oh, and these are just the first two tiers of raiding, let's not even get into Ahn'Qiraj and Zul'Gurub and Naxxramas......

I may have some parts a little out of order, it's been years, but.......Vanilla WoW wasn't a game, it was a job.

[BlitzAceRush]

You're trying to assign human motivation to a being who lacks it.

While they feel things differently, saying they can't or don't share our feelings and motivations at times I'd says is a bit of a stretch, Tiamat displayed a lot of relatable feelings and motivations for her actions during 5.5, beyond just honoring a pact, atonement and vengeance are very human motivators. I mean Nidhog started a 1000 year war over the rage and sorrow of losing a family member, again a very human response. While I wasn't expecting him to hug her or anything he was the one who last time told her perhaps it was time to let go, so it would have made sense for him to renew those words here, the dragons are different from us, but not so much so that given he's right there with us that he couldn't have taken the few seconds to appear, unless he couldn't.