MSQ

[Lauront]

Isnt that just the stuff that he said in Amaurot? I doubt that it means that he somehow will be back, at least not in flesh. (Also arent people annoyed with characters cheating death *looking at Ysthola and Gosetsu*. Or is that just the case because they are the good guys who survive?)

They are, but he continues the narration beyond that. Consider that he both assisted the WoL in the battle against Elidibus, through his own presence (worded more clearly in the JP version of the poem in Ere our Curtain Falls to note that it is him and not just something contained in the crystal), and was also said to be hanging around in the Aetherial Sea in the White Day event, even if that is taken as mostly fluff. Ishikawa also never really confirmed his (or Lahabrea's) deaths. Elidibus, similarly, is trapped in the tower rather than dead. In all three instances, the major issue is that auracites have never meant their death, but rather expulsion into the Aetherial Sea. The EN version, doing its own thing as usual, parses this as "consigned to oblivion", whereas you get things like this from the French version:

[20:48] Urianger : Une fois privée de son corps, une âme ascienne pourrait être enfermée dans une prison d'éther... Une lame éthérée serait alors en mesure de la briser, et l'Ascien retournerait ainsi vers la mer des étoiles.
= “Once deprived of their body, an ascian soul could be locked in an aether prison... An ethereal blade would then be able to break it, and the Ascian would thus return to the sea of stars.”

There is also the fact that Emet-Selch (due to his sheer power) could not even be contained in the auracite, and that Lahabrea wasn't killed in the conventional way. According to Ishikawa he's in a similar boat to Hades:

Toward the end of Shadowbringers, players defeat Hades without imprisoning him in the White Auracite. But Lahabrea was defeated in a similar way, and eventually returned. Is Hades is done for good?

NI: With Lahabrea, he wasn’t literally put into the White Auracite. But he was absorbed into the dragon’s eye, and Estinien pierced it. Although he wasn’t imprisoned in the White Auracite, you can technically say he’s in the same situation.

When Hades revealed his true form, and his soul was there, we didn’t capture it in the White Auracite. He was held down and pierced with a stake, basically. He was captured and not able to move at that point, and then the Warrior of Light struck him with the blow, so it is believed that Hades has been completely destroyed.

You will note that her answer is non-committal to the point of saying 1) his state is the same as Hades's and 2) it is believed that Hades was destroyed. I think it's also obvious that if everything up to the point Lahabrea endured in the eye failed to kill him, Estinien piercing it is hardly going to suffice.

We've never known him in the flesh, anyway. He was possessing hosts all along. I imagine if he does return it'll either be through being pulled out of the Aetherial Sea/Underworld (he has power over it after all), or in a more abstract sense like Shougun mentioned.

Besides, it wasn't just Gosetsu who got heat for that, but also Yotsuyu and Zenos, mostly because their arcs were considered concluded. Gaius also drew heat for it. Y'shtola mainly gets heat for it because of the sheer number of times it's been baited now, and she comes out just fine.

Now, am I fond of it? No, not really. I think they need to re-consider when they kill off characters, if the approach is actually to wait and see how popular they are, and/or whether they're the best fit for a plot arc, rather than giving the impression of death, then going "well, ackshually!" and pointing to technicalities they implanted, because it certainly does cheapen the meaning of death.

IMO, Elidibus was offed prematurely and had much of his thunder stolen by Hades. Fandaniel has a very weak connection to the ancient world, and Zenos has none. Yet they still wish to push the storyline of the ancients and ancient world forward, which makes sense since it's integral to Hydaelyn and Zodiark, and interests a lot of players more than some brat getting his jollies off to his next big fight. So their options are either to carry this on with one of the sundered Overlords besides Fandaniel, use Venat, whose role remains very ambiguous/is not keen on memory of the ancient world, or bring back the ones they have already built rapport with... with Emet-Selch having skyrocketed to 6th most popular character in the FF series in JP, it would not surprise me in the slightest if it were him. They've also telegraphed this from all directions.

With that said, am I going to complain if they bring back Emet or Elidibus (or Lahabrea, which seems most likely of all)? No, particularly if I am already enduring a "back from the dead" character I find as pleasant as nails scraping a chalk board (hint: it's not Y'shtola.) I will sit back and enjoy the ride and just hope the writing is good. At least with Emet he is the one character where cheating death makes the most sense, being lord of the Underworld...

[Theodric]

good guys

A matter of perspective, that.

[Iscah]

There is also the fact that Emet-Selch (due to his sheer power) could not even be contained in the auracite, and that Lahabrea wasn't killed in the conventional way. According to Ishikawa he's in a similar boat to Hades

Actually I'm reading that statement to mean they're not in the same boat - although it may be missing the actual comparison.

Lahabrea wasn't "literally" trapped in auracite but was pulled into the Eye, which functioned the same way and was subsequently destroyed.

The question may be asking about his first defeat in ARR but Ishikawa didn't take it that way.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Actually I'm reading that statement to mean they're not in the same boat - although it may be missing the actual comparison.

Lahabrea wasn't "literally" trapped in auracite but was pulled into the Eye, which functioned the same way and was subsequently destroyed.

The question may be asking about his first defeat in ARR but Ishikawa didn't take it that way.

But was destroyed through unconventional means which they end up stating. They leave both open ended however which does raise major eyebrows and especially with the raid reveal well.... seems pretty obvious where they’re going with it lol.

[Iscah]

But was destroyed through unconventional means which they end up stating. They leave both open ended however which does raise major eyebrows and especially with the raid reveal well.... seems pretty obvious where they’re going with it lol.

Her key statement, though, is:

Although he wasn’t imprisoned in the White Auracite, you can technically say he’s in the same situation.

I take that to mean "in the same situation as he would be if he had been trapped in auracite" despite a different substance being used to trap him.

Whether this statement was made before or after planning the Pandemonium raid is another question. Assuming that is indeed Lahabrea and not just Lahabrea's mask being used as an all-purpose Ascian mask, as it was in the Eden's Promise poster.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Her key statement, though, is:



I take that to mean "in the same situation as he would be if he had been trapped in auracite" despite a different substance being used to trap him.

Whether this statement was made before or after planning the Pandemonium raid is another question. Assuming that is indeed Lahabrea and not just Lahabrea's mask being used as an all-purpose Ascian mask, as it was in the Eden's Promise poster.

I mean, it’s his sigil. His sigil is Mateus. Pandaemonium is from ff2. FF2’s main antagonist is Mateus...

[Lauront]

We can sit there all day quibbling about terms, but I am unconvinced that piercing the eyes would suffice to end Lahabrea, when being absorbed into a Primal did not suffice to do the job by that point. It's no blade of light piercing him - and again, it would not suffice to destroy him, just to expel him to the Aetherial Sea, assuming it worked. Meanwhile, Emet was struck with that, and as she notes, "believed" to be completely destroyed.

Our boy's coming back.

[WhiteArchmage]

We can sit there all day quibbling about terms, but I am unconvinced that piercing the eyes would suffice to end Lahabrea, when being absorbed into a Primal did not suffice to do the job by that point. It's no blade of light piercing him - and again, it would not suffice to destroy him, just to expel him to the Aetherial Sea, assuming it worked. Meanwhile, Emet was struck with that, and as she notes, "believed" to be completely destroyed.

I mean, the only entity there after Thordan was Nidhogg. I don't recall ANY mention of Lahabrea's soul or consciousness remaining in the eyes. Heck, we offed THREE Primals (counting Estinihog) with them; if Lahabrea's essence had still been in the eyes, you'd think he would have body hopped into the very tired Estinien, or that Zenos would have mentioned it after taking over Shinryu.

I don't think Lahabrea will be a physical presence in Pandemonium, but rather that it'll deal with his legacy. Not unless Lahabrea's character is heavily reworked in EW.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I mean, the only entity there after Thordan was Nidhogg. I don't recall ANY mention of Lahabrea's soul or consciousness remaining in the eyes. Heck, we offed THREE Primals (counting Estinihog) with them; if Lahabrea's essence had still been in the eyes, you'd think he would have body hopped into the very tired Estinien, or that Zenos would have mentioned it after taking over Shinryu.

I don't think Lahabrea will be a physical presence in Pandemonium, but rather that it'll deal with his legacy. Not unless Lahabrea's character is heavily reworked in EW.

I don’t think it even needs a rework tbh. Again he’s an Unsundered. Plus they’ve had the protagonists live through far worse without any real plot explanation(Graha comes to mind). The fact they didn’t outright say he’s dead is very telling.

[Vahlnir]

Plus they’ve had the protagonists live through far worse without any real plot explanation(Graha comes to mind)

Stormblood spoilers:

Gosetsu got shot a few times from close range, probably tore a few muscles trying to hold the roof of a castle up long enough so everyone could escape, had said castle fall on him, nearly drowned and washed up on a deserted island with the person who tried to kill him in the first place. The first of those things should have killed him, followed by an entire castle falling down on his head. But...you know, details. I wasn't unhappy with his survival though, even though he probably shouldn't have survived at all.