MSQ

[Shougun]

A lot of the 'filler' is important world building. If you speak to nearby NPC's in between quest steps there's usually fresh dialogue that adds a lot of important context. Sure, some people will skip through it or ignore it entirely...but it does wonders at making the in-game world feel 'deep'.

I'd be in favour of a new point of entry for players to enter the game, maybe after 6.0 is done with. The Echo could be used as a method of allowing players who take the new route to experience the original route if they so pleased.

I think we'd be operating on different ideas of what filler itself means, but yes I agree with your example. For example someone was mentioning WoW and the travel quests as filler, and some where- I can't remember the name of it but it had something to do with getting a book. That quest took you allllll ovvverrr for this useless unimportant book with a back story that wasn't very good (very generic kill 10 rats lore). Unenthusiastic turn in.. 'yay'.... Meanwhile another quest I can remember was the secret Zelda one, and that took you all over and imo was more fun. Then you'd have that first time you journey to Jueno or something in FFXI, which I'd call absolutely not filler. The journey being very important to the world building.

Filler to me is like injecting your eggs with cement or using sewer goody bits to make cooking oil lol. It's just.. pfft. "Why?" *hands thrown in air*

Quality world building != filler (imo, lol - if it stands a purpose of value then it's not there to inflate the product). Which is why I dislike some of the 'delivery me x' quests in early ARR (which appear to have been made less painful so I hear from Otter), but there is a later dinner party that I thought was quite cute. Like using the Ghibli example when they give you a 20 second scene of just watching travel and art, it has a purpose and is not simply filler to 'extend the scene / inflate the product'.

Also why I've been sort of suggesting the alternate start though because to me it would be backwards in progression if SE responds to all this by disconnecting the story to content. Rather I'd like to see more required content or at least more intertwined content, which would normally ruin someone who wants to jet past the story to the content itself. The way, imo, to help that is by allowing a player to not have to 200+ hours of that, but rather jump in much faster at a sooner inlet. Like taking the scenic route vs the highway lol, and the destination (city or what have you) is something everyone will still be expected to explore (so you don't have things like SE disconnecting the story).

In a round about way I think we agree , I just don't see the word usage of 'filler' in any good light, but what you mentioned was good (so not filler imo). Fraying hairs XD.. Also hi mate :-3

[MrPresident]

To be honest a big part of it is that Eorzean issues are lame which makes it drag. The further we get away from Gridania/Limsa/Ul’Dah the better the story gets. I loved every bit of Shadowbringers as it felt like an actual Final Fantasy game while we were on The First.

Now back on The Source its back to being stuck in 15 minute long boardroom cutscenes and the *big* plot line currently where I’m up to in MSQ is attempting to establish trading relations between the kobolds and lominsans...exciting.

[Tommara]

Well, I do have to say that after spending the last few days in No Man's Sky, it also reached a point where I needed a break from it.

So I came back to FF14, which is pretty typical for me. Kind of a detox/attitude adjustment/reset period.

And waited in the queue for the level 70 Castrum Fluminis for well over an hour. The story that followed was well worth the wait.

I still don't think the 80 level 50 quests you have to do in ARR is worth it though, although admittedly, I barely remember them. My memory is very selective. I remember stuff that is interesting. I forget stuff that isn't. All I remember is the Scion/reincarnation of Scion drama.

But yeah, once you get past those 80 MSQs in ARR after you reach level 50, the story does become more interesting.

But as a practical matter, I know for a fact that the game loses level 50 players who get bored with having to do 80 more MSQs before they can progress to Heavensward. It's happened to me several times before once my friends reach level 50, and I'm currently playing with another friend who I fear won't make it to Heavensward, not because they are incompetent, but because he's also been playing MMO's for well over two decades, and so knows to stop playing an MMO when it's no longer fun.

[Penthea]

I know for a fact that the game loses level 50 players who get bored with having to do 80 more MSQs before they can progress to Heavensward.

I know players who were not bothered by it at all, many actually enjoyed it. Personally I LOVED that there was so much story content to do. It's one of the major things that made me keep playing. Even on alts I have never found the msq to be a slog.

And games lose players all the time. That is normal. You can't please everyone, it's impossible to. Almost everyone has picked up a game and found they didn't like it. For most people it's several games.

The msq isn't going anywhere. You might not like its place in FFXIV but the increasing popularity of this game means many disagree with you. SE are not going to drop a formula that works. It would be stupid to.

There is a lot of free MMO content that is more fun than paying to avoid content that is not fun in an MMO.

Then why not play that instead? Why spend your time trying to advocate for a change when what you want is already elsewhere?

I didn't enjoy Persona 5 due to a primary mechanic it has and I didn't go to forums and essentially say "hey these other games don't have this mechanic I hate, why can't this game be like them instead?" I just went to play those other games. It's a waste of time to complain that a strawberry milkshake doesn't taste like chocolate when you can just have a chocolate milkshake instead.

[Saefinn]

Then why not play that instead? Why spend your time trying to advocate for a change when what you want is already elsewhere?

I didn't enjoy Persona 5 due to a primary mechanic it has and I didn't go to forums and essentially say "hey these other games don't have this mechanic I hate, why can't this game be like them instead?" I just went to play those other games. It's a waste of time to complain that a strawberry milkshake doesn't taste like chocolate when you can just have a chocolate milkshake instead.

Very much this.

I just don't get the mentality of:
"there's this thing I've started doing that I don't enjoy but others do, but I've got something else I could do instead"
"so do something else?"
"No, I will continue to do the thing and expect them to make it so I enjoy it, even though those who enjoy it like it that way"

It boils down to what works for people and what people are willing to accept.

That is not to say to be a yesman who accepts everything the way it is without criticism. Because there are definitely things to criticise. But there is a limit, because there is a difference between a game that has areas in need of improvement and the game not being for you.

Ultimately it's a heavily story focused game encompassed as an MMORPG. The two elements are interlinked and are at the game's core and it's working for them. Plus I like that group content is locked behind story content, because it just doesn't make narrative sense to be able to go to a certain dungeon or fight without first having reached there. If anything this was one of my complaints about WoW, none of their dungeons had context for me and no story really led me into them and I felt nothing for any of the dungeons I went through. But as you'll probably see, I'm playing FFXIV not WoW, if that's what WoW players prefer, I'd say let them have it that way.

[ItMe]

I didn't enjoy Persona 5 due to a primary mechanic it has

Out of curiosity (I hope this doesn't sidetrack us) which mechanic was this?

[Penthea]

Out of curiosity (I hope this doesn't sidetrack us) which mechanic was this?

The time keeping. Having limited time to do things and needing to plan how time is spent. I'm the sort of person who wants to be able to take their time to do as little or as much as they want whenever they want to. After some googling I found that mechanic is present throughout the game so it became clear that Persona is just not for me. I was disappointed because I was enjoying the story and I really like the aesthetic. I can deal with mechanics like that if they're temporary but if they're a core feature of the game I just end up getting frustrated.

I know the Persona series is widely loved and highly praised so I know there isn't something wrong with the game. But there isn't something wrong with me either. We're just not a good match. And that's it. Instead of spending time complaining about Persona I went to play Xenoblade Chronicles 1 which I thoroughly enjoyed.

It's a waste of time to push for a change in a central mechanic if the majority of the playerbase don't mind it or enjoy it. No game company with any sense is going to risk alienating their large fanbase just to please those who are not part of that group. Which is why OP needs to accept that the msq's role in this game will never change no matter how much they complain about it. They're wasting time that could be spent doing something they enjoy. Especially given they already said there are better options out there. Why complain that a strawberry milkshake doesn't taste like chocolate instead of just getting a chocolate milkshake? I don't understand why someone would choose to feel constantly disappointed instead of do something that makes them happy.

[WhiteArchmage]

The time keeping. Having limited time to do things and needing to plan how time is spent. I'm the sort of person who wants to be able to take their time to do as little or as much as they want whenever they want to. After some googling I found that mechanic is present throughout the game so it became clear that Persona is just not for me. I was disappointed because I was enjoying the story and I really like the aesthetic. I can deal with mechanics like that if they're temporary but if they're a core feature of the game I just end up getting frustrated.

I know the Persona series is widely loved and highly praised so I know there isn't something wrong with the game. But there isn't something wrong with me either. We're just not a good match. And that's it. Instead of spending time complaining about Persona I went to play Xenoblade Chronicles 1 which I thoroughly enjoyed.

If I may derail this a bit, if the time keeping mechanic is what's keeping you off, I would suggest Persona 1 and 2; as the first in the series they were still finding their gameplay: 1 is a 1st person dungeon crawler with 3rd person exploration outside dungeons; while 2 is divided in "2: Innocent Sin" and "2: Eternal Punishment", both 3rd person dungeon crawlers. The story is... mostly ok, but they ARE sequential, with characters from the previous game appearing in the next one, so I suggest you play them 1, 2:IS, 2:EP. They're a little hard to get a hold of, though. Comes from being PS1 games with PSP ports.

[ItMe]

The time keeping.

Huh...
That's interesting.
Typically I can't stand games with internal clocks (they stress me out), but Persona 5 having one that advances under your control worked for me.
I understand why it didnt work for you though.

Also, I totally agree with your larger on topic comments about milkshakes~

[Tommara]

Then there is no problem. People are free to play those other contents if they think it's more fun than FFXIV's MSQ.

Yep!

I got to add stuff because my reply was too short, lol.