PVP REWARDS SUGGESTION (FEAST)

[ForteNightshade]

Some people say pvp rewards have no value, they are not worth earning. PvP needs something to motivate people to do it. Well those top 100 rewards do so. People want them, but they don't want to put the work into earning them. That's your fault.

If your system is so bad it needs this degree of exclusivity where only 100 people can obtain something, it's not a good system. Lo and behold it hasn't worked, to the shock of absolutely no one, since they're literally killing off Feast due to the sheer lack of participation.

Regardless, the issue people have taken with this system is what Aurida addresses. It's the blatant inconsistency. You could just as easily argue Ultimate or PotD need "motivation" to convince people to attempt them yet four years later their rewards are readily available.

[Commander_Justitia]

If your system is so bad it needs this degree of exclusivity where only 100 people can obtain something, it's not a good system. Lo and behold it hasn't worked, to the shock of absolutely no one, since they're literally killing off Feast due to the sheer lack of participation.

Why is exclusivity bad?

If top100 makes the mode so dead, maybe it should be top30 then so people keep competing and the mode stays alive, if I follow you correctly?
Maybe top100 was just the right limit, especially in the past, to ensure even players who are not that dedicated still get the reward.

[Fryfor]

It isn't bad. It just clearly isn't working, either. This game has had absolutely laughable PvP retention rates for years. WoW sure doesn't lock people out of arena ranking rewards on an arbitrary ranking system and has way more people playing it. Yoshi P wouldn't have straight up gone back on what he said in the past if he thought it was working well.

I genuinely enjoy Feast. More people should get into it, I want better game quality so I can improve further as a player, the whole kit and caboodle. It's strange from what all Square has copied that has worked, a reward system that retains actual interest seems to not be in grasp yet.

[ForteNightshade]

Why is exclusivity bad?

If top100 makes the mode so dead, maybe it should be top30 then so people keep competing and the mode stays alive, if I follow you correctly?
Maybe top100 was just the right limit, especially in the past, to ensure even players who are not that dedicated still get the reward.

I can speak only for myself but I've always found it silly. My experiences and enjoyment isn't measured by whether I have something other people can't obtain. I have several exclusive things on my main account and couldn't care less if they were made available to the masses. Within reason, of course. I wouldn't like if they took something and gifted it out in a log in campaign or something equally involving no effort.

Having a limit was never the right course of action, especially in a game where every other piece of content makes its rewards readily available years after its relevancy. That lack of consistency is why people have routinely been so upset over PvP getting exclusive timed rewards. That, and it being blatantly obvious they only did so in a desperate plea to get people into Feast. The whole "carrot on a stick" philosophy. The fact Feast numbers are among the lowest in the games entire history for any piece of content speaks to how much this approach simply didn't work. I also find it a little disingenuous people will fight in favor of exclusive rewards when there is no rank decry. Literally every competitive PvP game has this to prevent people sitting on their rank... except this one. Which is another reason why queues completely die within 2-3 weeks. But that's another argument.

[PotatoTree]

My experiences and enjoyment isn't measured by whether I have something other people can't obtain.

I feel like my opinion would be equally valid in this regard, and it would be the complete opposite to yours. If everyone wins then it is not fun. As crass as it sounds, it's not only about winning, it's about making others lose. My enjoyment is not only from getting something exclusive, but also in preventing someone else from getting it. That is part of the fun in a truly competitive mode, and if you're going to make ranked pvp than what use are ranks if there are no losers?

And I completely get that this playstyle is not for everyone. Which is why IMO if people don't like it just ignore it and ignore those rewards. I'm not going to whine that I can't get the big fishing title because I find fishing boring, or whine about not having the Necromancer title because I can't solo potd. Just ignore the content you can't do, this game has a wide variety of content and not everyone can do everything.

That lack of consistency is why people have routinely been so upset over PvP getting exclusive timed rewards.

And making promised exclusive timed rewards available would be breaking consistency. If they promised it was exclusive, they should keep their word. If they decide to change it up sure, that can be for new rewards, but leave the old ones as they were.

I also find it a little disingenuous people will fight in favor of exclusive rewards when there is no rank decry. Literally every competitive PvP game has this to prevent people sitting on their rank... except this one. Which is another reason why queues completely die within 2-3 weeks. But that's another argument.

Rank decay will not solve a single thing. Plat/dia players still play even when their top 100 spot is guaranteed, and they won't be paired with lower ranks. Late in the season all the lower ranked players already gave up, which is why queue dies for unranked. Rank decay is not going to decay some plat/dia all the way to unranked. If you're thinking of a constant rate decay, that will just hurt sub 50% wr players. If you're thinking of a decay for every day or week you don't play, people will easily dodge that by just queuing a single game a day.

If you do want to solve this through decay, just have shorter more frequent seasons. Every new season is technically a decay, halving everyone's points.

[Commander_Justitia]

You are probably right about the backlash, but what are we talking a couple hundred players considering alts. Feast rewards don't even make 1% of players. Again probably a good reason feast will die

It would be bad faith to give old rewards away. Not so sure about slight redesigns. They literally took PvE mount coloured it and said pay me. So they aren't exactly spotless.

The size of the PvP community is not solely determined by the number of winners... And what are you comparing to? Total players, Characters created, active players at max level, active players at max level who cleared savage ?

Lets compare PvP Ranked community vs. PvE Savage Community

PvP community isn't big, but there are probably 500+ people per dc at the start competing, probably half stopping within the first month. If you compare it with PvE, after 3 months of e12s being released, an EU datacenter has still under 1000 people with the mount. NA is a bit better, and JP way better at clearing.

You can argue now, if PvE Savage content is only for single digit % of the community, they shouldn't be mad if it dies, right? Even more so for ultimate. xD

And as far as I remember, they only took mounts that are part of mainstory or really cheap, and recolored them for mogstation. So it is not like they are exclusive or hard to get to begin with ​

My experiences and enjoyment isn't measured by whether I have something other people can't obtain. I have several exclusive things on my main account and couldn't care less if they were made available to the masses. I also find it a little disingenuous people will fight in favor of exclusive rewards when there is no rank decry. Literally every competitive PvP game has this to prevent people sitting on their rank... except this one. Which is another reason why queues completely die within 2-3 weeks.

I see it like, getting the reward is like a trophy or medal from a sport competition, you wouldn't want anybody else to get your 2020 Olympic Gold Medal if you won it by yourself or? Athletes simply enjoy that they won, they don't think about how they prevented others from getting it. But they would care if suddenly everyone gets a 2020 Gold Medal, for doing the same you did but way worse x1000.

Rank Decay doesn't fit this mode, once you understand it more, you will realize it. And it is also not the reason why it dies within 2-3 weeks at lower tiers. Just start simple by asking yourself, how you would implement rank decay; how often do you have to play to prevent decay from happening? Will there be still max rating then? If not, would people not be more pressured into playing the least possible just so they can stay around their peak rating longer, instead of risking many matches and losing it all. Another issue is that the season may be long, if you invest your time at the start - it means you will lose your rating till the end because of decay. But if you start towards the end, you have no disadvantages.
Decay would also hit all the casual PvP people who just want to reach a certain tier for wolf collars.

A better way would be, to promote/reward something like a daily Feast roulette, that has a +/-0.5 rating modifier. So you could gain 50% more rating with a win, or lose 50% less in case of a loss. Or make wolfcollars drop like fenrir pups within the mode randomly.

[Moonlite]

snip

https://ffxivcollect.com/mounts


A million people could start feast that doesn't change the fact that only 800 globally. Not sure does any other content have less then 800 clear? That would only be 100 statics globally.



I think it is a moot point though. Feast is going away and probably this reward system as well. Except for a small few, people won't miss it. It doesn't fit into the current mould of ff14. look at what they did to crafting and gathering to get more people into it.