Trust should go up to trails

[linayar]

Really? You were the one who brought up WoW. Unless there's a different game that is the supposed most popular mmo on the market you're referring to that I don't know about.

I did brought up that game, but you didn't quote the explanation:

... I wasn't really comparing the two games. My point is simply to use an example of a popular MMORPG to show how "mmos" don't necessarily have to encourage teamplay anymore.

I was using WoW as a response to your statement, not to compare it to FFXIV.

WoW rarely gives max lvl quest content that isn't tied to pve progression.

In one sense, fair enough. But I think that's more because WoW has more of a focus than FFXIV. But, I think that focus is more one-sided. I was casually playing WoW at endgame without doing much of the PVE progression. Just like in FFXIV, how much you need to progress depends on the kind of content that you want to do. But WoW didn't really have much of a MSQ until recently, and the MSQ in FFXIV at least requires you to progress to the point of being able to enter the last required group content in the expansion.

Anyways, this is more of a tangent to the teamplay discussion.

And yes, glad to see more support for TRUST. Although I do see the point of making trials easier to accommodate TRUST, but I think that normal trials aren't really for farming anyway, outside of being run in a roulette, and it wouldn't impact extreme versions. And it also depends on the AI technology, which should improve over time.

[Penthea]

In one sense, fair enough. But I think that's more because WoW has more of a focus than FFXIV.

I think it's more correct to say that both games do not focus on the same things. WoW famously pushes their high-end pve content as a major feature while FFXIV pushes their story content as a major feature. Both are valid. Neither type of content is better or worse than the other, it's about what a player personally prefers. There are players who enjoy both types of focuses and do play both games, they're just attracted to them for different reasons. Variety is nice to have. (and I'm quite disappointed that I still don't enjoy the direction WoW is going in because I'd love to have another mmo I enjoy to play on the side, I was looking forward to New World launching but that has been postponed D': )

And yes, glad to see more support for TRUST. Although I do see the point of making trials easier to accommodate TRUST, but I think that normal trials aren't really for farming anyway, outside of being run in a roulette, and it wouldn't impact extreme versions. And it also depends on the AI technology, which should improve over time.

I think the ai would have to be more sophisticated for trials for the simple fact that trials typically have mechanics that are more complex than dungeons and mistakes are less forgiving. Dunno about you but I have seen Trust npcs mess up mechanics by standing in telegraphs due to pathing issues. I think they would have to fix that first before expanding Trusts to bigger parties than 4 man.

And like I said there are significantly more 4 man msq instances than msq trials, so just for covering a lot of content it would make sense for SE to prioritise 4 man content first.

I actually quite enjoy Trusts when I want to do a dungeon but I'm in a super chill mood or I'm just curious to see what little bits of lore are hidden in them. I just wish the required xp gains on the npcs to lvl up wasn't so ludicrously high. But I suppose it might be like that because SE don't want players to rely on Trusts too much? It is possible that this is the intention considering they still haven't addressed that and it's the end of the expansion now. But players only need to complete msq content once to progress so it's not a huge issue and they're always available when you have a newly unlocked msq dungeon, and there are other avenues for xp when lvling up other classes.

[linayar]

I'd love to have another mmo I enjoy to play on the side, I was looking forward to New World launching but that has been postponed D':[/I] )

This has been a sad year for me as I finally decided to quit both WoW and SWTOR (and I was playing the latter only for story, but unlike in FFXIV, there is no reason to gear up or to team up, so there was nothing for me to do in between story patches, which are also not as predictable as FFXIV).

I don't really like PVP-focused MMORPG, which I think New World was supposed to be, though I also heard they backtracked a bit on that. Ashes of Creation also seems to be like that. PSO2 NGS might be worth a try, or this SoLO game I've been hearing about, though Gameforge, so ugh.

I think the ai would have to be more sophisticated for trials for the simple fact that trials typically have mechanics that are more complex than dungeons and mistakes are less forgiving. Dunno about you but I have seen Trust npcs mess up mechanics by standing in telegraphs due to pathing issues. I think they would have to fix that first before expanding Trusts to bigger parties than 4 man.

And like I said there are significantly more 4 man msq instances than msq trials, so just for covering a lot of content it would make sense for SE to prioritise 4 man content first.

I actually quite enjoy Trusts when I want to do a dungeon but I'm in a super chill mood or I'm just curious to see what little bits of lore are hidden in them. I just wish the required xp gains on the npcs to lvl up wasn't so ludicrously high. But I suppose it might be like that because SE don't want players to rely on Trusts too much? It is possible that this is the intention considering they still haven't addressed that and it's the end of the expansion now. But players only need to complete msq content once to progress so it's not a huge issue and they're always available when you have a newly unlocked msq dungeon, and there are other avenues for xp when lvling up other classes.

How do you feel about the TRUST experience in the Bozja intro quest? I think that was a good start.

[SturmChurro]

This has been a sad year for me as I finally decided to quit both WoW and SWTOR (and I was playing the latter only for story, but unlike in FFXIV, there is no reason to gear up or to team up, so there was nothing for me to do in between story patches, which are also not as predictable as FFXIV).

I don't really like PVP-focused MMORPG, which I think New World was supposed to be, though I also heard they backtracked a bit on that. Ashes of Creation also seems to be like that. PSO2 NGS might be worth a try, or this SoLO game I've been hearing about, though Gameforge, so ugh.

FFXIV is really the only MMORPG we have. Welcome to the club.

[linayar]

FFXIV is really the only MMORPG we have. Welcome to the club.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad to have FFXIV. It's my favorite BY FAR even when I also was playing other MMORPGs.

It's just that, when people like to mention other games, it's nice if I know what they're talking about. Even now, I feel like I can't even speak much on current WoW much longer since I never got past the leveling experience in Shadowlands, so all of my experience at max level is based on BfA, (though I'm pretty sure what I've said in this thread still applies.).

And honestly, as someone who likes story, getting to know about the stories in other MMORPGs does have its charm. It's just other things about other games make me not want to continue playing them, even for the story.

[Penthea]

I don't really like PVP-focused MMORPG, which I think New World was supposed to be, though I also heard they backtracked a bit on that.

They did. Initially they had pvp constantly enabled and what happened was players found themselves unable to progress in the game due to constantly getting ganked. The game just turned into a spiteful pvp mess. It was clear that this path wasn't doing the game any favours. I didn't play it at that point because like you I just don't have interest in a pvp focused mmorpg. I played it after they removed forced pvp and I really enjoyed it.

The character creation is lacking (well it was beta so perhaps it will be better at launch) but the environments are truly stunning. The combat itself is also a lot of fun. There are no classes, instead there are weapons that have certain skill types you can use. You can switch weapons in combat to have a flexible playing style. Huge contrast to how FFXIV's character progression is done. Also the housing is instanced, which is really nice...wish FFXIV would do that. Sigh.

PSO2 NGS might be worth a try

I have been flirting with the idea of playing that. I have a friend who is a huge PSO fan and she really loves it.

How do you feel about the TRUST experience in the Bozja intro quest? I think that was a good start.

I honestly forgot it even had that. I actually have no memory of it at all lol. Brain why you no work?

Well I guess that could mean it wasn't a bad experience otherwise I would have remembered it!

[EtherRose]

Still story shouldnt depend on others for it to pop

Not for trials and such. There is a reason only the Warrior of Light(s) can fight these battles. An example is Emet Selch and Elibidus. Warrior of Light's from other realms were summoned to help you fight them. It's part of the story.

[ReynTime]

Nah I'm against this.

Thanks to Trusts defining how they're designed I've never disliked 4-p dungeons more than I dislike them in Shadowbringers.

I don't want MSQ trials to suffer the same fate.
Imagine if my favorite MSQ trial, from 5.3, had been watered down to make trust behavior easier to implement in it. No, no thanks.

Also have to note that this would make the gap in difficulty between MSQ content and the rest of the pve content even wider than it is. When the mandatory stuff fails epically at preparing players for content like Bozja's duties at normal level because you keep trying to make the story all but carry the player to the max, I think your pve content has a very serious design problem.

[Kuroka]

Nah I'm against this.

Thanks to Trusts defining how they're designed I've never disliked 4-p dungeons more than I dislike them in Shadowbringers.

I don't want MSQ trials to suffer the same fate.
Imagine if my favorite MSQ trial, from 5.3, had been watered down to make trust behavior easier to implement in it. No, no thanks.

Idk why no one even takes note to that... stuff is already too easy and times where you actually need the full timer to finish a raid are long gone... the dungeons while being nice and for sure pretty just lack that certain something...

[StormyFae]

Nah I'm against this.

Thanks to Trusts defining how they're designed I've never disliked 4-p dungeons more than I dislike them in Shadowbringers.

I don't want MSQ trials to suffer the same fate.
Imagine if my favorite MSQ trial, from 5.3, had been watered down to make trust behavior easier to implement in it. No, no thanks.

Also have to note that this would make the gap in difficulty between MSQ content and the rest of the pve content even wider than it is. When the mandatory stuff fails epically at preparing players for content like Bozja's duties at normal level because you keep trying to make the story all but carry the player to the max, I think your pve content has a very serious design problem.

Okay time for cold truth..

A. Elements are pointless -500 diffuculty
B. Auto stats -2560 diffuculty
C. Everyone has and gets all abilitys without having to earn a single skill - 500 difficulty
D. As long as your team has rezs no fight is diffucult unless everyone is a moron fight or first timers who haven't seen the pattern yet-7000 diffuculty.

Fight patterns are always the same -8000 difficulty.
E. As long as you read your abilitys and test them u can master it easily as it tells u how 2 use it so clearly. -9000 points..

No skill trees, or spec to make ppl use their brain -12500 difficulty
Trust, if you die u fail the fight and have to restart also they dont aoe, so trust running is auto harder than players.. Unless you play with people who cant read.

Honestly base design frogger is a harder game than base ffxiv without taking into fact ppl who cant read