Fixing Player engagement DEV pls consider

[BreyVoreas93]

Although the idea is admirable, this will never happen. You cannot police medals when someone gets taken out for something they did not do, like an aoe that someone drops on you and kills you. I feel like from a design aspect, that would be incredibly hard to award appropriately. Beyond that, to many casual players in this game and many would likely take some sort of issue or offense to this type of thing.. it is the unfortunate state of things. I do think they should just revamp the commendation system. Once you get the parade choco, I don't believe you ever get anything else. At least I never have. Maybe that would be a good way to at minimum foster cooperation and foster "better play" in content. I do wish there were more ways to help people improve in the game though.

[Kemiko]

I personally wouldn't mind a medal reward system for content, though I'd definitely want it to have a mix of personal and group grading.

For example in group grading, completing the content could have a base reward just for completing the content but then have it augmented by collective group effort, such as:
Abilities stunned
Abilities silenced
Avoidable attacks evaded
Stack markers stacked
Damage mitigated (doesn't include self)
Players KO'd
Time completed
Etc.

For personal, it should rely entirely on your job:
If you have positionals, how often you hit them (the tank could make this harder, for sure, but you also have True North to help you with situations where you miss positionals).
If you have a buff you need to maintain, how often you lost it.
If you have mitigation abilities, damage mitigated (for self as mitigating others is listed under group)
Etc.

For general personal
Enemies killed
Enemies killed that you assisted in (like in PvP)
Damage contributed to the content
For healers, health restored could be added to their damage grading (health restored above max shouldn't be graded)

Like many things in the game, it can be abused by anyone looking to be jerks (not unlike currently running content and having "that guy" looking to ruin someone's day in the game) but I think this would be a neat addition.

I could also see it being segmented by (and probably should for personal) based on what the content is being attempted. Any dungeons pre-50 should definitely not have the same personal grading as a 71-80 dungeon, for example.

[linayar]

Yet the commendations system exists, which is a requirement for mentorship and if anything else is even more flawed. People comm based on glamour, role, catgirls, don't bother comming, they comm 0 dps healbots, the dps who used peleton but actually did terrible dps, the tank who wall pulled with no cd's and was carried by the healer and so on. The commendation system relies on players, many of whom are new, inexperienced or don't know how your role works rather than math, logic and actual numbers.

Why can't we have a medal system or performance report when it's perfectly fine for the vastly inferior commendation system to exist?

Because the commendation system exists precisely to reward people you like being in a duty with, regardless of the reason. If you put on a silly outfit and it makes someone's daily roulette more fun, then good for you. If you only heal the tank and makes the tank feel safe, then good for you. It's not a flawed system in that regard as it's doing exactly what it's supposed to. You could be the best player in the duty, but if the rest of the party did not enjoy playing with you, there's a chance of you not getting a commendation.

If there's any flaw to the system, it's the fact that there is a weekly task you can do to gain rewards for giving out a certain number of commendations. That's the only thing that needs to be changed (ie, removed).

Also for the argument of "someone else could get you killed and there goes your gold medal". Is a gold medal really that important? It's just a "well done" for a good run. Who cares if someone messes your run up from time to time, you know what happened and if you play well you'll get plenty of medals on average.

Because the OP wants to tie the medal to more tangible rewards. Human nature would make people not feel good if they're shown (or think) to be hindered from reaching their goal by someone else.

[Ath192]

Because the OP wants to tie the medal to more tangible rewards. Human nature would make people not feel good if they're shown (or think) to be hindered from reaching their goal by someone else.

Maybe, but seeing as you get a chance every time you get an eligible roulette the loss isn't that great, and while people like to focus on the worst thing that can happen, I.E. the community breaks down and starts insulting each and blaming each other (Something that already happens still) I think, and am a bit confident, that the majority of people would be more willing to communicate, and put up a group effort so that everyone does well.

I think if we can put ourselves in that situation, lets say a Nier raid at the moment, and I really wanted that medal. If I see someone dying I'd let them know what the mechanics do, make sure to answer any questions they have and encourage other people to do great so we can get them. Overall increasing the social aspect and performance of the group as a whole, that is something uplifting. And I think the majority of people would behave this way. Rather than purely negative, which some few regrettably do, and they resort to blaming and accusation regardless of a reward or not.

Is the game we want to play really designed around and for those that won't be happy no matter what? That will find the negative in everything we do? I'd care to say no, That is what the disciplinary tools are there for, Vote kicking, GM reports, etc. Not the game and raid design... That should be guiding, encouraging and challenging us to do better.

[linayar]

I think, and am a bit confident, that the majority of people would be more willing to communicate, and put up a group effort so that everyone does well.

The existence of the duty finder would suggest that less communication is preferable.

[Ath192]

The existence of the duty finder would suggest that less communication is preferable.

I am of mind that the existence of the duty finder is a suggestion that people like convenience, not that they would not like to speak to anyone or interact with them. It defeats the purpose of playing an mmorpg to suggest that is what people are looking for, solitude. And for those folk the trust system has been an option since 5.0.

[LaylaTsarra]

I am of mind that the existence of the duty finder is a suggestion that people like convenience, not that they would not like to speak to anyone or interact with them. It defeats the purpose of playing an mmorpg to suggest that is what people are looking for, solitude. And for those folk the trust system has been an option since 5.0.

When do people speak to one another in DF other than say hello or ty for the party? You're joking right? Many time they say nothing at all.

[linayar]

I am of mind that the existence of the duty finder is a suggestion that people like convenience, not that they would not like to speak to anyone or interact with them. It defeats the purpose of playing an mmorpg to suggest that is what people are looking for, solitude. And for those folk the trust system has been an option since 5.0.

Convenience comes with not having to communicate (much) due to how easy the content is. Once the content starts to get harder, forcing more communication, people would use party finder instead of just using the duty finder.

[ItMe]

I think if we can put ourselves in that situation, lets say a Nier raid at the moment, and I really wanted that medal.

If you wanted a medal, you'd overcap on them just doing the easy peasy dungeons doing your dailies.
Trying to get a medal in any specific content would work... if there's a tracker for what duties you have/haven't folded. But this medal system will really fumble if a gold from Sastasha has as much weight as one from e12s.

[Ath192]

If you wanted a medal, you'd overcap on them just doing the easy peasy dungeons doing your dailies.
Trying to get a medal in any specific content would work... if there's a tracker for what duties you have/haven't folded. But this medal system will really fumble if a gold from Sastasha has as much weight as one from e12s.

Yeah, I think in page 2 or 3 I mentioned it would be for level 80 activities mostly, when, presumably one is expect to have a decent grasp on their jobs. And grinding them is more than okay, they could have no cap at all. And once a person has gotten all the rewards they want, as long as they keep adding new ones they will always try to perform well in duties simply to snag one while they're at it.

You know how you can trade achievement points with Jonas in Gridania? and occasionally they add something in there? Something like that or the Faux Hollows currency. But with more expensive items and updated a bit more regularly since they barely put any attention to that one.